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???
There may be more to it than that.
I don't really know that story, but I reckon the mall was cutoff, and maybe surrounded by parking spaces.
If so, the problems were access, and the barrier represented by parking - not just having an indoor mall
I don't think so. Charlotte has had the exactly same issue with the Overstreet Mall. It's often cited as an urban development mistake. i.e. It took people off the streets and made downtown appear dead.
I agree with ex-burgher; Americans, myself included, don't care for this style of development.
Charlotte already has mixed use developments, like the EpiCentre. At best, many residents see that as creating a "Disney Land" - as if it's not attached to reality.
I personally wish CLT would return to the grand street design of the 1950's/60's. The closest thing we have to this, is Central Ave through Plaza Midwood, but only for a few blocks...
I don't mind the Epicentre... sure it's a little generic at times but it is great for conventions and festivals if used properly. I think it was the star of the DNC.
Central Ave in Plaza is a snooze fest as far as retail is concerned.
I would prefer another Metro type area on the other side of Uptown.
I agree with ex-burgher; Americans, myself included, don't care for this style of development.
Charlotte already has mixed use developments, like the EpiCentre. At best, many residents see that as creating a "Disney Land" - as if it's not attached to reality.
I personally wish CLT would return to the grand street design of the 1950's/60's. The closest thing we have to this, is Central Ave through Plaza Midwood, but only for a few blocks...
I'm an American. How can you claim to speak for all Americans?
The trick is, integrating the Dense Mixed Use development with the neighborhood surrounding it, rather than cutting it off. Elements in Kowloon is successful as a commercial project, even wildly successful. And I have seen Americans, Canadians, and Europeans happily shopping there.
But is remains somewhat cutoff from its environment - and for me, that is its main shortcoming. That may eventually be fixed, since development around it continues. Most notably, the new Express Train to China will be right next to it, but that will not be complete for another 3-4 years. And so, I will have to wait to see how it looks when completed to judge whether it is really cutoff.
Having said this, the Kowloon Central/Elements Mall project is truly world class, and is changing the way people think about property development.*
As it happens, about six weeks ago I had dinner with a Canadian billionaire property developer who owns a city block in Toronto. We met near his hotel with was within that ring of buildings. He was very impressed with what SHKP had done at Kowloon Cental - including the transport link to the IFC in Central. Who knows, we may see more of that sort of development in North America. He is also the largest landlord in a well-known US college town, and it will be interesting to see if any of what he saw will be applied to his future property developments there or in Toronto.
If I see him again after I visit CLT, I may try to interest him in a project there. But no promises, since I can not be sure I will see him again, although we spoke of meeting again. We shared some interests in how property development and transport issues work together in creating successful projects.
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*Much care was taken in the design of Elements: Elements is located directly above the Kowloon MTR Station and is also in the vicinity to the residential complex Union Square and the Western Harbour Tunnel.
The mall is divided into 5 zones base on the concept of the five elements of Nature, namely Metal, Wood, Water, Fire and Earth. Each zone is designed with a distinctive interior architectural theme that responds to the element, public art such as large scale sculptures are also employed to enhance the respective theme...
. . . The Elements has a total of 123 shops as of 2008, along with an ice rink and the 1600-seat Grand Cinema, currently the largest cinema complex in Hong Kong.
The mall has ten washrooms, outside which there is a lobby with sitting area and magazine rack. Management said these are conceived for men "to wait for their girlfriends outside the washroom", providing "a decent and comfortable place for them to wait".
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/wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elements,_Hong_Kong
I don't think so. Charlotte has had the exactly same issue with the Overstreet Mall. It's often cited as an urban development mistake. i.e. It took people off the streets and made downtown appear dead.
I am interested.
Can you please explain more, about what problems arose?
I'm an American. How can you claim to speak for all Americans?
You are an American who is gushing over China and you stated you didn't want to live in Chicago or NYC even though these cities have the density you desire.
Please don't come to Charlotte and try to turn it into NYC or HK... we have more than enough transplants (I'm one myself) who want to bring all things awesome from up north down to the new south.
The lack of density is what makes Charlotte attractive IMO... People want the city feel without the rat race crowds...we have a few pockets but aren't over saturated with people and we have more than enough apartments and condos being built to satisfy the influx of newcomers.
My wife was recently in NYC during the Nemo Blizzard.. she loves that place but she was over it once she jumped on the train and had to fight with a hundred people for 8 seats. If that is what you want... don't move here. This isn't the place for piling people on top of each other.
I am interested.
Can you please explain more, about what problems arose?
Thousands of people take to the Overstreet Mall during the Monday thru Friday business scene. The "problem" is that none of these people can be seen if you walk through uptown outside on a nice sunny day. The impression that most people get when they drive (or walk) through uptown Charlotte is "where are the people who are buying shoes, getting their hair and nails done, or working out during their lunch breaks". The answer to THAT question is that "they are all doing those things on the 1st and 2nd floors of skyscrapers that are connected by a system of overstreet tunnels; thus you will never see these people on the sidewalks and streets of uptown Charlotte". This (to some urban planners) is one of Charlotte's biggest urban failures. IMO, the only real failure is that the Overstreet Mall is not open during non-business hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner
If that is what you want... don't move here. This isn't the place for piling people on top of each other.
Agreed. I'd like to see more retail options uptown. Other than that, I'd like to see Charlotte stay "boring" and cheap. If I really wanted round-the-clock excitement (ie NYC) I'd be living there. Most people who come to cities like Charlotte just want a safe place with some big city amenities and an affordable home to raise their kids in. It's nice that the city has options like uptown and South End; those are the type of places I can see my wife and I moving to when we become empty nesters. However, this simply is NOT the place for the young professional who desires the excitment of a tier 1 metropolitan area. For those people, I'd highly suggest San Fran, NYC, Boston, or Chicago.
You are an American who is gushing over China and you stated you didn't want to live in Chicago or NYC even though these cities have the density you desire.
Please don't come to Charlotte and try to turn it into NYC or HK... we have more than enough transplants (I'm one myself) who want to bring all things awesome from up north down to the new south.
If you can speak that way, then perhaps you should consider posting elsewhere... if you think I should be living elsewhere merely for having my own opinion. (Little man of narrow-mindedness, go away, if you want to behave like that !)
I appreciate constructive comments, and constructive disagreement (thanks, others, who have posted those here), but I do not see how slagging off my comments and motivations on the thread that I started are constructive.
NYC and the "awesome North" have plenty to learn from the skyscraper city on the South China sea IMHO. I attended an architects conference not long ago, and there was a hook-up with architects in NYC, who admitted as much.
The funny thing is that some (many?) of the innovations in HK and China are coming from architects from the west, who are able to experiment here, because Hong Kong and China "have the budget" to spend on architectural design, while much less innovative work is being done in conservative and budget-constrained cities in the US, including the "awesome North" of the US. If you know any top architects, ask them, and I am pretty certain that they will confirm that the US now has much to learn from Asia about incorporating transport into urban design. On good reason: Asia has been much better about borrowing good design ideas from the West, and they are being perfected (in practice) here while they are barely on the design boards in the US.
Thousands of people take to the Overstreet Mall during the Monday thru Friday business scene. The "problem" is that none of these people can be seen if you walk through uptown outside on a nice sunny day...
. . .
Agreed. I'd like to see more retail options uptown. Other than that, I'd like to see Charlotte stay "boring" and cheap. If I really wanted round-the-clock excitement (ie NYC) I'd be living there. Most people who come to cities like Charlotte just want a safe place with some big city amenities and an affordable home to raise their kids in...
Thanks for the explanation.
Sure there's ROOM FOR BOTH in CLT:
+ Big city urban environments, and
+ Some peaceful areas to raise families.
BTW, do any of you with teenagers ever ask your children which they (the children) would prefer?
If you can speak that way, then perhaps you should consider posting elsewhere... if you think I should be living elsewhere merely for having my own opinion. (Little man of narrow-mindedness, go away, if you want to behave like that !)
Ironic, considering that Felt is one of the most fair and open minded posters on the board .
Geologic , can you not accept the fact that Charlotte has a culture/customs/identity of its own, and that people appreciate, and seek to protect, it?
There are reasons why Charlotte is a main destination for people. You might not agree with their reasoning, and you're free disagree, but others have a similar prerogative .
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