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Old 09-07-2014, 10:49 AM
 
3,860 posts, read 4,242,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
I'd contend that this is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Look at Boston. How much money was spent to make their bisecting freeway go away and how many years did it take to accomplish? Urban interstates/freeways destroy urban districts. They often create a "right side" and "wrong side" of the proverbial "tracks". The areas immediately adjacent to them often lay waste in under-development because, frankly, there's a freaking freeway next door. They often become eyesores, dangerous and seedy. Their whole purpose is to rapidly move people through an area that begs for people to slow down and linger.
Urban land is way too valuable to all residents of their respective cities because of the tax revenue generating potential of the land. I am glad that Raleigh citizens and government realized the pitfalls of an urban highway through it decades ago. From what I understand, DOT had plans to plow a N-S artery through the city but the local government and citizens resisted. If I have this correct, the DOT settled with the city on two parallel one way streets to move traffic through Raleigh at an urban speed. This is why Raleigh has McDowell St. running north and Dawson running south as the city connection of the US-70 corridor. Even so, Raleigh has still suffered some consequences of freeway-esque design as US-70 pours out of DT onto Capital Boulevard with increasing speeds and an overpass over Peace Street thereby cutting off some of the street grid on the north end of DT. To further alleviate this small amount of damage done decades ago, the city and the DOT have agreed to improve this area as well with changes to the bridge replacement design that will enhance the urban experience.
I say good for Charlotte and any other city that doesn't have a highway/freeway/interstate running through its core. These types of roads are not born from urban design philosophy; they are products of the suburban model.
What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't seem to hurt Richmond, VA, etc that has several urban freeways that allow access through downtown and across the city. You can build elevated freeways through urban areas without have to forklift existing urban communities...fact is NC DOT was clueless back then (or too cheap) and now trying to retrofit. Most other cities seem to have been to achieve this feat.

NC DOT could have easily designed and built I-277 so that it connected I-77 to I-85 with minimum impact to existing urban communities. Instead they built a 4 mile partial urban loop that connects I-77 back to guess where..I-77...a major WTF.

And Raleigh is just as bad, maybe in worse shape. Let's spare the urban purist rant and deal with the reality of moving people through the city using a well designed freeway system which clearly escaped the brilliant minds at NC DOT...and now it's mess.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:49 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,966 posts, read 24,040,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Person View Post
I was actually told by a realtor in a new Tega Subdivision just the opposite. He said that the big gains in real estate have already been seen in the Charlotte region and now things are starting to stabilize. Maybe the long term investment will be okay, but that's basically true anywhere. I'd be more worried about paying top dollar for a house in a brand new subdivision in a "hot" market and then have the bubble burst. You can never predict which way the economy is going to go and even the Charlotte area could take hit. We've already seen the "hot" housing market tank in 2008 with a record number of foreclosures........ it can happen again.
Just look at Atlanta. The price of housing certainly hasn't escalated across that metro. Like most cities, it does have its neighborhoods that have grown in value much more rapidly than the entire metro. However, the general trend in housing in that market was stable overtime to actually depressed and cheap since the great recession. If I were buying a house in Charlotte, Raleigh or any other fast growing metro, I'd avoid the outer rings of development like the plague and either pony up more money to live somewhere more established and nice or buy a fixer in a rejuvenating neighborhood closer to the city center.
To a point, I agree with the OP. People are enticed by overall market metrics that don't really give anyone a true sense of what they will be spending when they move. That is, of course, unless the transferee wants to live in a vinyl clad cookie cutter house built on slab on a tiny lot far away from the city center.

That said, I disagree with the OP regarding property taxes. I don't see NC property taxes going the way of New Jersey, New York, etc. Will they rise? Yes. Will it be dramatic over time? Probably not. Some of the main drivers of escalating costs just aren't there. For instance, NJ and NY are famous for have a bazillion tiny community school districts. In NC, districts tend to be mostly county or city based. Running them costs less because you aren't replicating and staffing districts all over the place. Also, NC municipalities don't budget huge dollars for snow removal. Municipal salaries are also lower for public workers in NC and so are their pensions. I would, however, avoid a purely suburban residential model community because as the infrastructure ages, the costs of supporting it will fall on the property owners in town. If you are going to live in the burbs, choose one with large commercial or corporate operations that help fund the tax base.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,966 posts, read 24,040,699 times
Reputation: 14760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't seem to hurt Richmond, VA, etc that has several urban freeways that allow access through downtown and across the city. You can build elevated freeways through urban areas without have to forklift existing urban communities...fact is NC DOT was clueless back then (or too cheap) and now trying to retrofit. Most other cities seem to have been to achieve this feat.

NC DOT could have easily designed and built I-277 so that it connected I-77 to I-85 with minimum impact to existing urban communities. Instead they built a 4 mile partial urban loop that connects I-77 back to guess where..I-77...a major WTF.

And Raleigh is just as bad, maybe in worse shape. Let's spare the urban purist rant and deal with the reality of moving people through the city using a well designed freeway system which clearly escaped the brilliant minds at NC DOT...and now it's mess.
Oh...that's right. You alone are correct. I apologize.....I'll "spare" you.

Never mind that Richmond's bisecting freeway did create a wrong side of the tracks for decades and that its municipal population shrunk for decades and is still well below its maximum population and even the population of the city in 1950. Never mind that Richmond's toll road on I95 was about building toll roads including a bypass around the city so that traffic didn't continue through its center.....
Never mind. Pass the Kool-Aid.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:01 AM
 
3,860 posts, read 4,242,911 times
Reputation: 4507
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Person View Post
I was actually told by a realtor in a new Tega Subdivision just the opposite. He said that the big gains in real estate have already been seen in the Charlotte region and now things are starting to stabilize. Maybe the long term investment will be okay, but that's basically true anywhere. I'd be more worried about paying top dollar for a house in a brand new subdivision in a "hot" market and then have the bubble burst. You can never predict which way the economy is going to go and even the Charlotte area could take hit. We've already seen the "hot" housing market tank in 2008 with a record number of foreclosures........ it can happen again.
Buy a house in a solid community and plan on living there for the long term or foreseeable future. Worrying about or trying to time the market is an exercise in futility. Anything can happen anywhere at anytime to disrupt so-called market stability.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:05 AM
 
3,860 posts, read 4,242,911 times
Reputation: 4507
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
Oh...that's right. You alone are correct. I apologize.....I'll "spare" you.

Never mind that Richmond's bisecting freeway did create a wrong side of the tracks for decades and that its municipal population shrunk for decades and is still well below its maximum population and even the population of the city in 1950. Never mind that Richmond's toll road on I95 was about building toll roads including a bypass around the city so that traffic didn't continue through its center.....
Never mind. Pass the Kool-Aid.
I wonder what created the wrong side of the tracks in existing Raleigh and Charlotte, in case you haven't noticed it's the same everywhere you go with respect to economic neighborhood divide. I guess the urban freeway system made white flight a little easier for transporting belongings to the suburbs.

No Kool-Aid...diet pepsi?
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:35 AM
 
180 posts, read 343,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Buy a house in a solid community and plan on living there for the long term or foreseeable future. Worrying about or trying to time the market is an exercise in futility. Anything can happen anywhere at anytime to disrupt so-called market stability.

That's what I think too. The best investment in the Charlotte 'burbs is in the most established area you can find with a good school district. I don't think I would touch new construction there - many people want to buy new construction but you can get more for your money in an established slightly older neighborhood. I think I would avoid an HOA if that's even possible - not sure it really is though.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:31 PM
 
1,826 posts, read 2,477,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
I wonder what created the wrong side of the tracks in existing Raleigh and Charlotte, in case you haven't noticed it's the same everywhere you go with respect to economic neighborhood divide. I guess the urban freeway system made white flight a little easier for transporting belongings to the suburbs.

No Kool-Aid...diet pepsi?
This is very true and also pretty sad. The US Interstate Highway system was designed with heavy considerations for maintaining and in some cases enhancing racial divisions within cities. Even right here in Charlotte.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:56 PM
 
6,321 posts, read 10,267,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Secondly, I-85 does not feed into downtown Charlotte and the only accessible freeway to downtown is via I-77. I'm not sure why NC DOT decided to sort of bypass downtown areas via interstates but it makes accessing downtown difficult without using secondary roads from I-85. I live this daily because commuting into uptown from Concord during rush hour is a mess that could have been alleviated with direct freeway via I-85. I usually take one of the secondary roads (which are increasingly overloaded) because of the daily backups at the poorly planned I-85/I-77 intersection that doesn't have flyover ramps...it's rather puzzling?
I feel like your suggestion would have only worked if 485 was completed from the beginning. Because otherwise wouldn't traffic be even worse with 85 going through uptown? You'd likely have more people using it to get uptown, and then of course all the tractor trailer and other through traffic. Ugh.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:17 AM
 
118 posts, read 184,506 times
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Default Yes

Not just Charlotte but the south from Raleigh to Atlanta in general is out of control. The weather channel recently published an article: The Weather Channel
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:23 AM
 
118 posts, read 184,506 times
Reputation: 90
Default What Cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
As long as there is a demand I don't see the problem. The traffic in Charlotte can get bad at times but all cities have this problem.

Yes, the cities you don't live in if you want a pleasant quality of life. It is obvious North Carolina and Charlotte is unwilling and unable to deal with the influx. I have been here almost two years and its twice as busy as it was then. I'm taking 77 to 81 North Out of Here!!!
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