Civil War remembrance for Memorial Day 149 years ago (Charlotte, New Bern: photos, history)
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Of course I am not embarrassed. Why should I be? This was the way of life at that time. You are bringing your 21st C sensibilities to judge 19th C. sensitiblities. My gggrandfather was doing what he was taught to do . . . work hard, buy land, buy slaves to work on the land. That is how society functioned at the time. I plainly stated his slaves were freed in 1850, so as society changed, people's ideas changed. You do realize the Civil War started in 1861, right?
I am sure if I examined your ancestry I could find something to demonize. Folks are products of their times. Just amazes me you would expect me to be embarrassed about something my ancestors did. I am proud of my ancestors. My civil war ancestors are descendants of folks who settled in this region in the 1700s and were patriots who fought to buy our freedom from colonial rule. WHy you would expect me to be embarrassed about my lineage makes me wonder about your understanding of your own history and this country's history. If you have a horse thief, a rapist or a murderer in your background, are you gonna be embarrassed about it? I should hope not. Geeeezzz.
ETA: I have been researching a tidbit for years that I guess you think should "embarrass" me . . . but it doesn't! I have reason to believe that my gggrandfather's son may have fathered a child with one of the slaves on his farm. I have been trying to find any documentation or link that would give me a clue as to whether or not I have family in the black community. I want to find them, share our mutual history and add them to my family tree. Few documents exist to allow black families in this region to connect themselves to their own history. I guess you find all this "embarrassing" too? I can't help what my ancestors did but I can sure try to fill in the gaps and understand their lives, their society and how I -- and others -- may be connected by that history.
That is what "honoring" your history means. It was what it was. The only way this country is ever gonna heal is to stop with the white guilt, demonizing, victimization saga and the politics of grievance - and start putting things in context; and join together, black and white, in our mutual history, ugly as it may appear through our eyes today.
Last edited by brokensky; 06-10-2012 at 10:19 AM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,751,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Of course I am not embarrassed. Why should I be? This was the way of life at that time. You are bringing your 21st C sensibilities to judge 19th C. sensitiblities. My gggrandfather was doing what he was taught to do . . . work hard, buy land, buy slaves to work on the land. That is how society functioned at the time. I plainly stated his slaves were freed in 1850, so as society changed, people's ideas changed. You do realize the Civil War started in 1861, right?
I am sure if I examined your ancestry I could find something to demonize. Folks are products of their times. Just amazes me you would expect me to be embarrassed about something my ancestors did. I am proud of my ancestors. My civil war ancestors are descendants of folks who settled in this region in the 1700s and were patriots who fought to buy our freedom from colonial rule. WHy you would expect me to be embarrassed about my lineage makes me wonder about your understanding of your own history and this country's history. If you have a horse thief, a rapist or a murderer in your background, are you gonna be embarrassed about it? I should hope not. Geeeezzz.
ETA: I have been researching a tidbit for years that I guess you think should "embarrass" me . . . but it doesn't! I have reason to believe that my gggrandfather's son may have fathered a child with one of the slaves on his farm. I have been trying to find any documentation or link that would give me a clue as to whether or not I have family in the black community. I want to find them, share our mutual history and add them to my family tree. Few documents exist to allow black families in this region to connect themselves to their own history. I guess you find all this "embarrassing" too? I can't help what my ancestors did but I can sure try to fill in the gaps and understand their lives, their society and how I -- and others -- may be connected by that history.
That is what "honoring" your history means. It was what it was. The only way this country is ever gonna heal is to stop with the white guilt, demonizing, victimization saga and the politics of grievance - and start putting things in context; and join together, black and white, in our mutual history, ugly as it may appear through our eyes today.
Ani, I don't understand the problem with people taking 21st century sensibilities & applying them to 18th & 19th century people. The 1st slaves, that I'm aware of, in North America, were the Finnish slaves brought to New Sweden.
In my opinion, most people are woefully unaware of the social factors that went before the Civil War, & we are taught a skewed version of the Civil War, too. It was widely known at that time that many Confederate "volunteers" were "drafted" at the long end of a rifle. There were anti-slavery Quakers in NC. The Mendenhall Plantation in Jamestown was part of the underground railroad. The Quakers & Moravians were religiously opposed to war.Both groups were in PA & NC.
Let's not forget the women. Women were the property of their fathers, until they married, at which time they became the property of their husbands. At the beginning of the war it was socially unacceptable for women to be nurses. By the end of the war, women on both sides were nurses, working the farms, & working in mills & factories, including munitions foundaries, not to mention the unknown number, on both sides, who fought on the battlefield. It was a miserable time for one & all.
Ani, I don't understand the problem with people taking 21st century sensibilities & applying them to 18th & 19th century people. The 1st slaves, that I'm aware of, in North America, were the Finnish slaves brought to New Sweden.
In my opinion, most people are woefully unaware of the social factors that went before the Civil War, & we are taught a skewed version of the Civil War, too. It was widely known at that time that many Confederate "volunteers" were "drafted" at the long end of a rifle. There were anti-slavery Quakers in NC. The Mendenhall Plantation in Jamestown was part of the underground railroad. The Quakers & Moravians were religiously opposed to war.Both groups were in PA & NC.
Let's not forget the women. Women were the property of their fathers, until they married, at which time they became the property of their husbands. At the beginning of the war it was socially unacceptable for women to be nurses. By the end of the war, women on both sides were nurses, working the farms, & working in mills & factories, including munitions foundaries, not to mention the unknown number, on both sides, who fought on the battlefield. It was a miserable time for one & all.
Thank you for reminding all of us about the situation with women, as well. Yes, it is impossible for us to understand history if we are going to apply current sensibilities. Great points about women. People forget that women didn't have the right to vote in 1861 . . . (and that wasn't just in the South!) That was the way of the world. Things have to be examined in context.
It was a miserable time for all and nothing any proper historian would wish to "glorify" . . . but also not something that should embarrass us, make us feel guilty, or that we must apologize for. Beliefs change and society evolves. Laws reflect that evolution. This has been true in every country, throughout the history of mankind.
The responsibiilty of successive generations is to make sure that the evolution of human rights, in this country and throughout the world, is maintained and protected as we move forward.
Last edited by brokensky; 06-10-2012 at 12:39 PM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,751,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Thank you for reminding all of us about the situation with women, as well. Yes, it is impossible for us to understand history if we are going to apply current sensibilities. Great points about women. People forget that women didn't have the right to vote in 1861 . . . (and that wasn't just in the South!) That was the way of the world. Things have to be examined in context.
It was a miserable time for all and nothing any proper historian would wish to "glorify" . . . but also not something that should embarrass us, make us feel guilty, or that we must apologize for. Beliefs change and society evolves. Laws reflect that evolution. This has been true in every country, throughout the history of mankind.
The responsibiilty of successive generations is to make sure that the evolution of human rights, in this country and throughout the world, is maintained and protected as we move forward.
Ani, I had to bring up the situation with women. You know, as I do, that tracking back on women is frequently as hard, or harder, than tracking back on slaves. Women had no legal standing of their own with few exceptions.
Our generation is the last of the old & the first of the new, simultaneously. I remember hearing the announcement of the death of the last Civil War veteran. I also remember hearing about the Woolworth sit-in in Greensboro.
There are many factors involved with the Civil War & many were national, so I won't belabor them. People who didn't watch Who do you think you are should watch the episodes online.
Now here are some examples of real bravery and valor worth honoring. Serving their country even in the face of a rouge regime, North Carolina patriots supported five Union regiments - 4 white and one black.
Now here are some examples of real bravery and valor worth honoring. Serving their country even in the face of a rouge regime, North Carolina patriots supported five Union regiments - 4 white and one black.
We was in Charleston over the weekend and I took some pictures relating to history of Civil war.
The first Charleston lighthouse continued to provide service up to the Civil War. In 1861 the fleeing Confederate soldiers blew up the lighthouse so northern troops could not use it.
Following the civil war, in 1873, Congress appropriated money for the rebuilding of the Morris Island Lighthouse (then referred to as the Charleston Main Light). The lighthouse was completed in 1876 approximately 400 yards from the earlier tower.
Of course I am not embarrassed. Why should I be? This was the way of life at that time. You are bringing your 21st C sensibilities to judge 19th C. sensitiblities. My gggrandfather was doing what he was taught to do . . . work hard, buy land, buy slaves to work on the land. That is how society functioned at the time. I plainly stated his slaves were freed in 1850, so as society changed, people's ideas changed. You do realize the Civil War started in 1861, right?
I am sure if I examined your ancestry I could find something to demonize. Folks are products of their times. Just amazes me you would expect me to be embarrassed about something my ancestors did. I am proud of my ancestors. My civil war ancestors are descendants of folks who settled in this region in the 1700s and were patriots who fought to buy our freedom from colonial rule. WHy you would expect me to be embarrassed about my lineage makes me wonder about your understanding of your own history and this country's history. If you have a horse thief, a rapist or a murderer in your background, are you gonna be embarrassed about it? I should hope not. Geeeezzz.
ETA: I have been researching a tidbit for years that I guess you think should "embarrass" me . . . but it doesn't! I have reason to believe that my gggrandfather's son may have fathered a child with one of the slaves on his farm. I have been trying to find any documentation or link that would give me a clue as to whether or not I have family in the black community. I want to find them, share our mutual history and add them to my family tree. Few documents exist to allow black families in this region to connect themselves to their own history. I guess you find all this "embarrassing" too? I can't help what my ancestors did but I can sure try to fill in the gaps and understand their lives, their society and how I -- and others -- may be connected by that history.
That is what "honoring" your history means. It was what it was. The only way this country is ever gonna heal is to stop with the white guilt, demonizing, victimization saga and the politics of grievance - and start putting things in context; and join together, black and white, in our mutual history, ugly as it may appear through our eyes today.
Beautifully written. As an SCV member, I always chuckle to myself when I meet someone who thinks I should be ashamed of my family's history. Most people just do not understand and honestly don't want to understand. While my relatives owned zero slaves, they fought valiantly for the Confederacy. I have no shame in that. I wish to honor and preserve their heritage, history, and contributions for as long as I live.
Now here are some examples of real bravery and valor worth honoring. Serving their country even in the face of a rouge regime, North Carolina patriots supported five Union regiments - 4 white and one black.
Good article and contribution. However, those soldiers were no more or less brave than the Confederate soldiers. This thread was intended to show remembrance for all things Civil War, not debate the valor of soldiers and argue about the Confederacy.
Last edited by SonofDixie; 06-13-2012 at 02:51 PM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,751,094 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
COPED - thank you so much for posting this info. I was aware that there had been Union regiments but I had never pulled up the actual research/data.
Really appreciate your sharing this.
Ani, at the opening of the war many men fron East TN & Western NC fled to KY, OH, & MI & joined regiments there. Many men hid out in the hills & joined Union regiments when the western theater Union armies showed up.
I think that all of the soldiers on both sides should be honored.
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