Camera Speeding Ticket without Sign Notice...

[An Einnseanair]

First, I paid attention driving in this morning, and didn't see one of the little white "Photo Enforced" on any of the Speed Limit signs anywhere near the I-75 / E. Brainerd Rd. intersection. But there is one several miles farther west. Ultimately, however, there are TWO (2) separate 40-mph speed limit signs within a fairly short distance of the van's favorite spot. So the speed limit is legally posted.

Originally Posted by Fitgerald

Luv the self righteous tudes: it's your own fault for getting caught. I guess being human is just so beneath some people. Those in glass houses...

It's the law as passed by YOUR elected government (unless you don't live here and get a ticket while passing through; in that case, thanks for your contribution our local government's general fund ). There are a few locations in the general area where there are ridiculously slow speed limits posted along straight, wide, multi-lane roads with clear sight lines; these locations tend to attract the camera vans and even tradition cop-with-a-radar-gun speed traps. But even if you don't agree with the posted speed limit, it's still your choice to speed or not. So yeah, if you get caught, it's your fault. You either weren't paying enough attention to see the sign, weren't paying enough attention and forgot about the speed limit, or made a conscious decision to exceed the speed limit.

As a disclaimer, I'll admit to routinely exceeding the posted maximum legal speed limit. I might have gone as fast as 70 in a 55 this morning along the I-24 speedway. But if I get caught speeding I won't blame the police officer for doing his job. Either I know the speed limit and exceeded it, or I wasn't paying enough attention and didn't slow down where I should.

[drrfling]

Originally Posted by senyahc

I got one last month at East Brainerd and I-75. I promise you there were no signs.
I was going 51 in a 40. In the picture, I am clearly in a pack of cars getting onto the freeway.
The van was not the normal van, with the side windows that prop open, it was a little mini-van-ish thing that was paneled and had no windows besides the drivers and passengers. The picture was taken from behind my car... and you can barely make out the tag... but it is definitly my car.

I received an identical citation, and was probably in your pack of cars getting onto the freeway. There was definitely NO posted signs, and I saw the same mini-van-ish thing on the opposite side of E. Brainerd.

[drrfling]

Originally Posted by senyahc

I got one last month at East Brainerd and I-75. I promise you there were no signs.
I was going 51 in a 40. In the picture, I am clearly in a pack of cars getting onto the freeway.
The van was not the normal van, with the side windows that prop open, it was a little mini-van-ish thing that was paneled and had no windows besides the drivers and passengers. The picture was taken from behind my car... and you can barely make out the tag... but it is definitly my car.

I got one at the same location, on E. Brainerd (going uphill) to enter I-75 to Atlanta. I travel that portion of E. Brainerd everyday, and I was sure that was no posted sign.

But just to make ABSOLUTELY sure, I drove there today (1/20/11) to the underpass which was the only place where a sign was posted, and the sign said something to the effect "All cars in this lane must turn left" (which was the entrance to I-75. I am going out there to take photos to show the absence of any sign about e-camera around.

[drrfling]

Originally Posted by Mary_Moon

Wouldn't it be easier to just observe the posted speed limit? All this discussion about warning signs, not paying the fine, etc. Follow the law and you don't have to worry about this stuff.

And the LAW is not about speed limit, but about the Chattanooga and TN LAW that there must be a warning sign about e-cameras that ticket automobiles for speeding, discussed in the camera-speeding-ticket-without-sign-notice thread.

[An Einnseanair]

Originally Posted by drrfling

But just to make ABSOLUTELY sure, I drove there today (1/20/11) to the underpass which was the only place where a sign was posted, and the sign said something to the effect "All cars in this lane must turn left" (which was the entrance to I-75. I am going out there to take photos to show the absence of any sign about e-camera around.

They usually put one of those temporary orange construction-looking signs WAAAAAY east on East Brainerd. Usually back over the top of the hill past that new light at the new apartment complex. People are watching the light or the traffic in the intersection and tend to miss the sign. Which was probably on purpose.

Originally Posted by drrfling

And the LAW is not about speed limit, but about the Chattanooga and TN LAW that there must be a warning sign about e-cameras that ticket automobiles for speeding, discussed in the camera-speeding-ticket-without-sign-notice thread.

Actually, the law, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't even address the manned mobile camera vans. The law [Click HERE, search for 55-8-198] only requires signs at the fixed unmanned cameras, which is what the OP originally thought had nabbed him. The discussion then evolved to cover manned speed traps, which are not mentioned in the referenced law. The manned mobile vans are no different from any other speed trap where an officer uses technology to establish your speed and identity and then issues a traffic citation. Well, there are some differences... one is that in a traditional speed trap the officer interacts with you to also check things like vehicle registration, insurance, sobriety, obvious signs of other illegal activity, etc. The other is that the ticket from a traditional trap puts points on your license. The camera vans are pretty much about generating revenue, so they stay in one spot and keep on taking pictures. They do, however, usually post signs to justify the claim that the vans are there purely for safety reasons.

Also, there was a brief discussion about just not paying the ticket because there's no way to prove you actually got it in the mail (they're sent first class mail, not certified or return-receipt). This is technically true, especially if you've moved in the recent past, but the ticket stays on your record. The next time you get pulled over or have to go to court for any reason they'll find the ticket. It's much harder to get off with a "warning" when the officer knows you have a couple of unpaid speeding tickets sitting on your record. And now you will "officially" receive notice of the ticket and will have to pay it. This happened to a friend of mine in a different state. He had two unpaid camera tickets, then he got pulled over for real. Because of the unpaid tickets he had to actually go to court instead of mailing in the fine. He got out of paying the late fees ("But I've moved, and I never got the notices, your honor!"), but he did have to pay the full value of the camera tickets plus the officer-issued ticket.

[drrfling]

jwkilgore wrote on 1-21-2-11, "The manned mobile vans are no different from any other speed trap where an officer uses technology to establish your speed and identity and then issues a traffic citation."
The difference is that the ticket must identify the driver, not the vehicle which could have been driven by anyone for the violation of speed limits.
"Well, there are some differences... one is that in a traditional speed trap the officer interacts with you to also check things like vehicle registration, insurance, sobriety, obvious signs of other illegal activity, etc. "
That's the crucial difference, in the enforcement of the LAW on speeding.
"The other is that the ticket from a traditional trap puts points on your license."
Can I redeem green stamps on those points? For the first time in my 50 years of driving without a chargeable accident, I found accidentally (pun intended) that the AllState insurance company in Chattanooga ignores all speeding tickets and points, but penalizes any driver who has an accident charged to him/her. Kudos to AllState. I get the "safe driver discount" on my liability insurance, even though I had over $1,200 worth of speeding tickets within the past year, in GA and TN, on I-75 between Chattanooga and Atlanta. My wife, who never had a speeding ticket in her 50 years of driving, is now the "unsafe" driver paying a higher liability premium because she was involved in a minor traffic accident in which she was charged and fined.
The supreme irony of penalizing drivers (without any prior accident) for speeding, in the name of "safety" was, on the day I was required by GA to appear in court by LAW because the speeding ticket was 31 mph over the speed trap limit, I paid the over $600 fine, and on my way to Atlanta, was struck by TWO cars from the rear on I-75, and I could not collect a cent from either guilty driver because both their insurance company claimed it was the other driver's fault and the police could not find one of the defendants on my lawsuit, and the small court judge was telling jokes and chatted with the defendant and dismissed her charge because she was represented by her insurance lawyer who made some technical argument that the burden of proof was on ME, when she was the driver whose car struck mine FIRST, and struck it again when the other driver struck her car.

[Barking Spider]

Yep, I-75 between Chattanooga and Atlanta is one serious speed trap.

But, REALLY????? 31 MPH OVER the speed limit?????? REALLY?

[FLORIDA TO NIOTA 2010]

Wow, I didn't realize that a sign had to be posted to "Warning do not break the law" or .......
No wonder there are so many criminals running around loose breaking the law. They get off on a technicality.

I speed sometimes too. And I have noticed that one minute the speed limit is 50 or 55 and the next it is 45. I try to make sure I run the speed limit because sometimes I feel like I'm in the way. Some people run right up to my bumper if I'm running the limit (oh well ), I guess they are in a hurry. I don't want a ticket!

[u4icmusic]

The law is not to speed, period. If you speed, whether you get caught or not, you are breaking the law. Driving is a privilege and not a right, so slow down.