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Old 06-05-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 4,775,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Lurker View Post
I think the base price for the new CTS V is just over $82,000.00
This is what I'm talking about. Even if the CTS-V is a "spectacular vehicle", I look at this price and see "I could get three Toyota Camrys for that price". Maybe the Caddy is somewhat better than the other vehicles in its size class. But two or three entire times better, when none of these Cadillacs make it to the "most reliable vehicles" lists? Every list you see which has vehicles most likely to make it to a quarter-million miles or vehicles with the most "for sale" posts showing 200,000 miles or more, it's always populated almost entirely by Toyota and Honda vehicles, with the occasional F-150 in there. For $82,000, I would expect to have a car that could make it to 200,000 miles with absolutely no trouble whatsoever and 500,000 miles without needing repairs that'd put it in the shop for more than a day and hit me with a bill exceeding $500. Really, that's what an expensive car should be about - being a truly better car. If a Cadillac handles well and accelerates well... but is sitting in the boneyard with a blown engine at 187,000 miles while my Prius is still going strong at 279,000... is it really a better car?

So let's assume that it really does have excellent handling. Is that really the only thing that people look for when they buy luxury cars? And what's so important about it anyway? I read articles about cars that get road-tested and it's always things like "skidpad holding" - is there really an improvement in safety and accident avoidance if you have a skidpad rating of 1 g or greater? (If yes, okay, I can see paying for safety. Your life is priceless. But it seems like these articles that talk about handling seem racetrack focused rather than accident avoidance focused.)

I suppose I should test-drive a 1972 Chevy Impala to see if I can determine a difference between my Cadillac and the comparable Chevrolet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Lurker View Post
For so long I have had no interest in Cadillac because I just don't like a car with initials. I want a car with a name that stands out as to what the car is. I get all the initials confused and I think it lessens the brand IMHO.
Yeah, I don't like that either. Lincoln is worse, with MK-this and MK-that. I wind up referring to Lincoln cars as "the big car", "the one that looks like a Ford Edge", "the big SUV", and "the one that looks like a Ford Fusion".
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: New England
2,190 posts, read 2,231,420 times
Reputation: 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
This is what I'm talking about. Even if the CTS-V is a "spectacular vehicle", I look at this price and see "I could get three Toyota Camrys for that price". Maybe the Caddy is somewhat better than the other vehicles in its size class. But two or three entire times better, when none of these Cadillacs make it to the "most reliable vehicles" lists? Every list you see which has vehicles most likely to make it to a quarter-million miles or vehicles with the most "for sale" posts showing 200,000 miles or more, it's always populated almost entirely by Toyota and Honda vehicles, with the occasional F-150 in there. For $82,000, I would expect to have a car that could make it to 200,000 miles with absolutely no trouble whatsoever and 500,000 miles without needing repairs that'd put it in the shop for more than a day and hit me with a bill exceeding $500. Really, that's what an expensive car should be about - being a truly better car. If a Cadillac handles well and accelerates well... but is sitting in the boneyard with a blown engine at 187,000 miles while my Prius is still going strong at 279,000... is it really a better car?
Noone in the market for a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord would ever consider a Cadillac. Cadillac competes with BMW or Mercedes, cars with equivalent ownership costs. Yes they are much more expensive than a Honda/Toyota but they are much more fun to drive and more distinctive. I don't think anyone should overstretch their budget to afford an expensive car however if someone makes a lot of money and wants to treat themselves a Cadillac/BMW/Mercedes/Audi are all great options. And most buyers of these luxury cars aren't going to keep them for 200k miles.

And really you're comparing a Cadillac to a Prius. Prius's are soul crushing for anyone who wants to have fun driving. It gets you from point A to point B more reliability than most other cars however for some it is more about the journey than the destination.
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:14 PM
 
9,502 posts, read 4,336,034 times
Reputation: 10550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
This is what I'm talking about. Even if the CTS-V is a "spectacular vehicle", I look at this price and see "I could get three Toyota Camrys for that price". Maybe the Caddy is somewhat better than the other vehicles in its size class. But two or three entire times better, when none of these Cadillacs make it to the "most reliable vehicles" lists? Every list you see which has vehicles most likely to make it to a quarter-million miles or vehicles with the most "for sale" posts showing 200,000 miles or more, it's always populated almost entirely by Toyota and Honda vehicles, with the occasional F-150 in there. For $82,000, I would expect to have a car that could make it to 200,000 miles with absolutely no trouble whatsoever and 500,000 miles without needing repairs that'd put it in the shop for more than a day and hit me with a bill exceeding $500. Really, that's what an expensive car should be about - being a truly better car. If a Cadillac handles well and accelerates well... but is sitting in the boneyard with a blown engine at 187,000 miles while my Prius is still going strong at 279,000... is it really a better car?

So let's assume that it really does have excellent handling. Is that really the only thing that people look for when they buy luxury cars? And what's so important about it anyway? I read articles about cars that get road-tested and it's always things like "skidpad holding" - is there really an improvement in safety and accident avoidance if you have a skidpad rating of 1 g or greater? (If yes, okay, I can see paying for safety. Your life is priceless. But it seems like these articles that talk about handling seem racetrack focused rather than accident avoidance focused.)

I suppose I should test-drive a 1972 Chevy Impala to see if I can determine a difference between my Cadillac and the comparable Chevrolet.



Yeah, I don't like that either. Lincoln is worse, with MK-this and MK-that. I wind up referring to Lincoln cars as "the big car", "the one that looks like a Ford Edge", "the big SUV", and "the one that looks like a Ford Fusion".

I suppose if I were poor and forced to drive a POS like a Prius and had to keep it for 200,000+ miles, I guess I could see your point. Luckily, I've been fortunate enough not to be in such a position.

Have you ever even driven a fun car or really nice car? If not, how can you possibly pass judgement on people who like to drive cars that are entertaining and/or are luxurious? Here's the thing - many people can easily afford Cadillacs, MBs, BMWs, etc. Why should they drive a crap box like a Camry if the don't have to? Perhaps if you spent less time worrying about how other people spend their money and more time improving your financial situation, you too could have a decent car.

And yes, a CTS-V is easily 3 times better than a godforsaken Camry.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,762,837 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
This is what I'm talking about. Even if the CTS-V is a "spectacular vehicle", I look at this price and see "I could get three Toyota Camrys for that price". Maybe the Caddy is somewhat better than the other vehicles in its size class. But two or three entire times better, when none of these Cadillacs make it to the "most reliable vehicles" lists? Every list you see which has vehicles most likely to make it to a quarter-million miles or vehicles with the most "for sale" posts showing 200,000 miles or more, it's always populated almost entirely by Toyota and Honda vehicles, with the occasional F-150 in there. For $82,000, I would expect to have a car that could make it to 200,000 miles with absolutely no trouble whatsoever and 500,000 miles without needing repairs that'd put it in the shop for more than a day and hit me with a bill exceeding $500. Really, that's what an expensive car should be about - being a truly better car. If a Cadillac handles well and accelerates well... but is sitting in the boneyard with a blown engine at 187,000 miles while my Prius is still going strong at 279,000... is it really a better car?

The day Toyota or Honda builds a sedan that can do what a CTS-V can on a race track, then maybe you'd be on to something. Otherwise, you are comparing pineappples to weedeaters. Trying to compare the reliability of a cheap low powered FWD car to a high powered luxury car is really silly and unfair. GM makes Malibus and Cruzes for such comparisons and those cars probably will make it 200k or more with little out of pocket expense.


Let's see someone put 500k miles on a Lexus LFA or even a IF-F and it not cost them any more to run than a Corolla and you will have a valid point. But they can't and you don't
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,778,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Lurker View Post
I think the base price for the new CTS V is just over $82,000.00

For so long I have had no interest in Cadillac because I just don't like a car with initials. I want a car with a name that stands out as to what the car is. I get all the initials confused and I think it lessens the brand IMHO.

However I recently posted the same rant about Cadillac and their use of initials and so for the first time decided to go research the new Cadillac's to see what their top of the line sedan was. I haven't known for a few years anything about Cadillac's simply because they were so far off my radar because of the whole initial usage and the fact I have felt like Cadillac has been in an identity crisis for so many years has caused me to stay away from even looking at them as an option.

So after researching I learned Cadillac's top of the line 4 door sedan is the CTS V. I read all about it and was surprisingly impressed. Not sure I was so impressed that I'd go out and buy one but I was impressed with what I read. For now though if I buy a new car it will be a Chevy Suburban just because I like their full size.
I never pay full retail. I would either get one a year or two old or finagle a discount on a new one. I have always been able to finagle a discount if needed. Buy the prior year model after a better new model is out, get one that got a little hail damage, one that was purchased and returned but has too many miles to sell as new. . . . If you are patient and work at it, you can always find a substantial deal. A "Used" one with 6500 miles on it would not bother me at all (unless it was smoked in).

I will name my CTS V "George" Then it will have a name. Actually I would probably remove all the initials. I would prefer people not know it is a "v" (yes aficionados can still tell, but many or most people do not know the difference). However I might put "George" lettering on it - just to confuse people. Would you buy a "George"?

If you want to be impressed, go drive a V. For most drivers of average/above average aggression and ability, the CTS V is everything that a Corvette is. Yes, you can push a corvette beyond the capabilities of a CTS-V, but you are never going to do so. Not even on a track. (Unless you are a professional driver with a decade or more of experience). I drove the 2, and I did not have the confidence to push the vette beyond the V. You would not believe how well a CTS v corners.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:27 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 4,775,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
Noone in the market for a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord would ever consider a Cadillac. Cadillac competes with BMW or Mercedes, cars with equivalent ownership costs. Yes they are much more expensive than a Honda/Toyota but they are much more fun to drive and more distinctive.
Fun to drive just because they accelerate better and can take corners at faster speeds?

Distinctive - not really. I know a fair bit about cars and I can't differentiate today's new cars. Of course, older cars weren't that easily differentiated either, so it's not like anything has changed. People don't flash their lights at me and give me the thumbs-up when I'm driving my '72 Caddy because it's a Cadillac - they do that stuff because it's an old car. Its age makes it distinctive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
I don't think anyone should overstretch their budget to afford an expensive car however if someone makes a lot of money and wants to treat themselves a Cadillac/BMW/Mercedes/Audi are all great options. And most buyers of these luxury cars aren't going to keep them for 200k miles.
I just don't get how "reliability" is not at the top of the list of necessities for anyone dropping that kind of money on a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
And really you're comparing a Cadillac to a Prius. Prius's are soul crushing for anyone who wants to have fun driving.
I don't know about that. I have fun trying to get the best possible gas mileage out of it and my best one-tank MPG number was 48.6. It's soul-crushing paying huge sums of money for gasoline when anyone with half a brain knows that that money is going to fund terrorism or line the pockets of someone else who already has bazillions of dollars and doesn't need any more of the few I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
It gets you from point A to point B more reliability than most other cars however for some it is more about the journey than the destination.
That, I suppose, only holds true if you have no place to be by a particular time and will not be inconvenienced by typical roadway nuisances like traffic jams, road construction zones, and red lights. Perhaps it comes down to this - I hate driving. Period. I hate having to drive. I would give it up in a heartbeat if I could... and that has nothing to do with the act or feel of piloting an automobile. It's all about the ancillary conditions I encounter while so doing - such as idiots on the road, traffic jams, red lights, yadda yadda yadda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
I suppose if I were poor and forced to drive a POS like a Prius and had to keep it for 200,000+ miles, I guess I could see your point. Luckily, I've been fortunate enough not to be in such a position.
I'm poor but only by voluntary choice as I have decided in recent years to spend my work time doing something I enjoy, instead of having my soul slowly poisoned to death every day working for a boss who doesn't care about me. However, I used to be much more wealthy, and in those days I drove cheap old cars for which I paid cash. When I say "cheap", I mean "less than $1,000 purchase price, in the previous decade". I fail to see what makes a Prius a POS. 43.2 miles per gallon average across almost 94,000 miles, zero repairs in that amount of mileage, and sufficient giddyup to overtake any vehicle I wish to pass due to its driver refusing to go the speed limit, in a sufficiently short amount of time such that my life is not endangered. That plus all of its safety features - seems to be an excellent car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Have you ever even driven a fun car or really nice car?
Depends upon your definition of "fun" and "nice". I've owned three Cadillacs - two 1972's and one 1981. They must qualify as "really nice" due to their status as luxury cars, right? I had a rusty old 1967 Buick Skylark convertible that was a blast to drive because I liked the open-air cruising. If that doesn't meet your standard for "fun" and "really nice", please define those terms so I can answer your question accurately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
If not, how can you possibly pass judgement on people who like to drive cars that are entertaining and/or are luxurious?
At what point did I pass judgment? Remember, I own a Cadillac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Here's the thing - many people can easily afford Cadillacs, MBs, BMWs, etc. Why should they drive a crap box like a Camry if the don't have to? Perhaps if you spent less time worrying about how other people spend their money and more time improving your financial situation, you too could have a decent car.
My financial situation is fine, thank you very much. I spend my time improving my life. I won't lay on my deathbed wishing I'd worked at a more demanding job so as to have earned more money in my life. And as mentioned before, I believe I do have two decent cars. The '72 Caddy turns heads everywhere and has lots of room, and the Prius has been more reliable than any car I've ever owned.

And if the Camry were a "crap box", it wouldn't sell so well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
And yes, a CTS-V is easily 3 times better than a godforsaken Camry.
Because it accelerates 0-60 in half the time? Really - if you drive a hot car like that, you can't even go as fast on the highway because you're a cop magnet. The best way to be able to go fast is to drive something that blends in and won't make a cop want to teach you a lesson (or think "look at that $82,000 car - this dude can afford a ticket") if you do get pulled over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
The day Toyota or Honda builds a sedan that can do what a CTS-V can on a race track, then maybe you'd be on to something. Otherwise, you are comparing pineappples to weedeaters. Trying to compare the reliability of a cheap low powered FWD car to a high powered luxury car is really silly and unfair. GM makes Malibus and Cruzes for such comparisons and those cars probably will make it 200k or more with little out of pocket expense.
Life is not a race track. Chances are, nearly none of those fancy luxury cars are going to see track time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Let's see someone put 500k miles on a Lexus LFA or even a IF-F and it not cost them any more to run than a Corolla and you will have a valid point. But they can't and you don't
So, in essence, it's all about racetrack performance, even though they won't be raced on a track and if they do engage in racing while on ordinary roads they'll be cop magnets. Well, nobody ever stated for the record that the wealthy don't waste money.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:31 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,699,244 times
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The same reason people buy brand name designer clothing instead of the generic Walmart equivalent.
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Old 09-14-2016, 09:28 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 1,400,038 times
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i bought a cadillac last december, after several decades without one and found that the new vehicles are much superior to the 80's and 90's models. but one of the biggest differences i have encountered, is the service dept at the cadillac dealership. always a new loaner, no matter the reason for the visit and just a better overall experience than the toyota, honda, gmc, dodge, lincoln, ford or chevy dealerships i have been dealing with the last few decades.

the car is so much fun to drive, i have made a few road trips to places that i used to fly to!
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:03 PM
 
9,502 posts, read 4,336,034 times
Reputation: 10550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
Fun to drive just because they accelerate better and can take corners at faster speeds?

Distinctive - not really. I know a fair bit about cars and I can't differentiate today's new cars. Of course, older cars weren't that easily differentiated either, so it's not like anything has changed. People don't flash their lights at me and give me the thumbs-up when I'm driving my '72 Caddy because it's a Cadillac - they do that stuff because it's an old car. Its age makes it distinctive.



I just don't get how "reliability" is not at the top of the list of necessities for anyone dropping that kind of money on a car.



I don't know about that. I have fun trying to get the best possible gas mileage out of it and my best one-tank MPG number was 48.6. It's soul-crushing paying huge sums of money for gasoline when anyone with half a brain knows that that money is going to fund terrorism or line the pockets of someone else who already has bazillions of dollars and doesn't need any more of the few I have.



That, I suppose, only holds true if you have no place to be by a particular time and will not be inconvenienced by typical roadway nuisances like traffic jams, road construction zones, and red lights. Perhaps it comes down to this - I hate driving. Period. I hate having to drive. I would give it up in a heartbeat if I could... and that has nothing to do with the act or feel of piloting an automobile. It's all about the ancillary conditions I encounter while so doing - such as idiots on the road, traffic jams, red lights, yadda yadda yadda.



I'm poor but only by voluntary choice as I have decided in recent years to spend my work time doing something I enjoy, instead of having my soul slowly poisoned to death every day working for a boss who doesn't care about me. However, I used to be much more wealthy, and in those days I drove cheap old cars for which I paid cash. When I say "cheap", I mean "less than $1,000 purchase price, in the previous decade". I fail to see what makes a Prius a POS. 43.2 miles per gallon average across almost 94,000 miles, zero repairs in that amount of mileage, and sufficient giddyup to overtake any vehicle I wish to pass due to its driver refusing to go the speed limit, in a sufficiently short amount of time such that my life is not endangered. That plus all of its safety features - seems to be an excellent car.



Depends upon your definition of "fun" and "nice". I've owned three Cadillacs - two 1972's and one 1981. They must qualify as "really nice" due to their status as luxury cars, right? I had a rusty old 1967 Buick Skylark convertible that was a blast to drive because I liked the open-air cruising. If that doesn't meet your standard for "fun" and "really nice", please define those terms so I can answer your question accurately.



At what point did I pass judgment? Remember, I own a Cadillac.



My financial situation is fine, thank you very much. I spend my time improving my life. I won't lay on my deathbed wishing I'd worked at a more demanding job so as to have earned more money in my life. And as mentioned before, I believe I do have two decent cars. The '72 Caddy turns heads everywhere and has lots of room, and the Prius has been more reliable than any car I've ever owned.

And if the Camry were a "crap box", it wouldn't sell so well.



Because it accelerates 0-60 in half the time? Really - if you drive a hot car like that, you can't even go as fast on the highway because you're a cop magnet. The best way to be able to go fast is to drive something that blends in and won't make a cop want to teach you a lesson (or think "look at that $82,000 car - this dude can afford a ticket") if you do get pulled over.



Life is not a race track. Chances are, nearly none of those fancy luxury cars are going to see track time.



So, in essence, it's all about racetrack performance, even though they won't be raced on a track and if they do engage in racing while on ordinary roads they'll be cop magnets. Well, nobody ever stated for the record that the wealthy don't waste money.
Poor people (that would be you) are funny.

Don't you have a bathroom to clean or trash to empty.....or something?
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:20 PM
 
9,502 posts, read 4,336,034 times
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Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
My financial situation is fine, thank you very much. I spend my time improving my life
.
I call BS. You sound like stereotypical under-achieving trailer-park-dwelling minimum-wage-earning vermin. Slink back to your crapactular econobox and leave the adults alone. Let me guess - livin' large on $75K per year? Loser.
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