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CCH has improved? The town can't even keep a pancake house in business! And then the mayor wants to give the owner $7,000 of tax payer money to pay the restaurants electric bill. Admittedly, this is a loan, but when the doors close for good, what are the odds the city will be able to collect? What successful town has to pay a simple restaurant to stay in business?
Pancake house gets boost from city :: The SouthtownStar :: Phil Kadner (http://www.southtownstar.com/news/kadner/2069508,022510kadner.article - broken link)
Businesses come and go all the time. 10 year ago there was nothing on 167th Street but cornfields. Now there's a lot of ****. It's no Orland, but it will do.
I never been to Chatham Pancake house, but most people told me that the food there wasn't that good. The one in Chatham taste better.
Another thing. I read the article a few days ago. Let me ask you this....Why would he close down a business that was bringing in $650,000? He should have just kept the Chatham location open and opened another one in CC Hills or atleast franchise. I just think that was a bad business decision.
Sure - I'll tell you. And then you tell me what those other fantasy towns are in the south suburbs that have improved tremendously.
I just looked at the CD crime statistics - which, btw, I hadn't looked at until just now. I honestly thought the crime rate would've been the same now as it was 10 years ago.
Uh, wrong.
It's increased.
I do feel though, that the south side gets a bum rap sometimes - that everything between Hyde Park and Kankakee is a sewer pit. And that's not quite right.
But to say that there are more towns that have improved is completely and utterly false.
More often than not, unfortunately, there is less pride of ownership, more crime, poor performing schools - it's quite sad really.
Ok. I'll agree with you a tiny bit about the crime rate. However, even though the crime rate has "risen", it hasn't affected my lifestyle at all. I forget to put on the alarm system, lock my car doors and close the garage door all the time, but the years that I've been here, I've never had anyone steal from me or any of my neighbors. Now I know some people here who have been robbed, but for the most part, crime in CC Hill is very random and doesn't affect the majority of people's lifestyle. Now I did have problems with some neighbors, but nothing serious though.
The school problem I can agree with. Then again, I went to one of the poor performance schools and I turned out fine. Most of my friends turned out fine. Some didn't, but most of us did. They definately aren't the best, in the state, but they are not the worse either. I say that they only have room to improve from here.
I have to disagree with having less pride of ownership. Maybe in Harvey or Riverdale, but most of the houses here are in good shape. I don't know what parts of the suburbs you been to, but most of the houses in CC Hills, Matteson, Hazel Crest, Olympia Fields, Homewood, Flossmoor, Lynwood, Glenwood, Richton Park, University Park, Crete, Lansing, South Holland, etc. are in good or great shape.
Maybe the houses you been to are in bad shape, but most of the ones out here looks pretty good. I know in CC Hills, if your property doesn't look good then you'll get a citation. My neighbor got a citation for not fixing his gutters.
Ok. I'll agree with you a tiny bit about the crime rate. However, even though the crime rate has "risen", it hasn't affected my lifestyle at all. I forget to put on the alarm system, lock my car doors and close the garage door all the time, but the years that I've been here, I've never had anyone steal from me or any of my neighbors. Now I know some people here who have been robbed, but for the most part, crime in CC Hill is very random and doesn't affect the majority of people's lifestyle. Now I did have problems with some neighbors, but nothing serious though.
The school problem I can agree with. Then again, I went to one of the poor performance schools and I turned out fine. Most of my friends turned out fine. Some didn't, but most of us did. They definately aren't the best, in the state, but they are not the worse either. I say that they only have room to improve from here.
I have to disagree with having less pride of ownership. Maybe in Harvey or Riverdale, but most of the houses here are in good shape. I don't know what parts of the suburbs you been to, but most of the houses in CC Hills, Matteson, Hazel Crest, Olympia Fields, Homewood, Flossmoor, Lynwood, Glenwood, Richton Park, University Park, Crete, Lansing, South Holland, etc. are in good or great shape.
Maybe the houses you been to are in bad shape, but most of the ones out here looks pretty good. I know in CC Hills, if your property doesn't look good then you'll get a citation. My neighbor got a citation for not fixing his gutters.
I don't think you have a long history with the south suburbs. Your frame of reference is a bit skewed because you have a short time period of comparaison.
If you could compare the south suburbs of today side by side with the south suburbs of 1988 or 1978 there is definitely less pride of ownership ... the majority of the south suburbs have been in a steady decline. And in the case of at least two - Cal City and Dolton, the decline has been steep, swift ... and sad.
And PS ... I drive through South Chicago & South Shore all the time. Just because I haven't been car jacked yet, doesn't mean that the crime rate there isn't significantly higher than other areas. The fact that you personally haven't been touched by crime, violent or otherwise, has no bearing on the truth that crime is in fact higher in CC Hills compared to 10 years ago.
I don't think you have a long history with the south suburbs.Your frame of reference is a bit skewed because you have a short time period of comparaison.
If you could compare the south suburbs of today side by side with the south suburbs of 1988 or 1978 there is definitely less pride of ownership ... the majority of the south suburbs have been in a steady decline. And in the case of at least two - Cal City and Dolton, the decline has been steep, swift ... and sad.
For your information I've been out here for 21 years. I grew up here and now own a home for almost 3 years. My grandparents lived out here for 35 years when you can count the Black people out here. I lived in other places for a few years, while in college, but I primarily had ties with CC Hills all my life. A lot of my friends and family live here and other South Suburban Communities for a long time. Trust me, I know a loooooot about this community. I've been here when there was waaaaaaaay more whites on my block.
I've been inside there homes. To be truthful, most of their homes were outdated. In fact, when the whites moved out, the new owners made a lot of these houses look waaaaaaaaaaaay better and more modern. On top of that, there have been entirely new subdivision built all throughout the South Suburbs with waaaaaaaaaay more modern amenities I don't know what you are talking about when you say that there's less pride in ownership?
I don't know who you ran across, but the people I know have pride in the homes and their neighbors' homes. That a ****ing insult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity
And PS ... I drive through South Chicago & South Shore all the time. Just because I haven't been car jacked yet, doesn't mean that the crime rate there isn't significantly higher than other areas. The fact that you personally haven't been touched by crime, violent or otherwise, has no bearing on the truth that crime is in fact higher in CC Hills compared to 10 years ago.
Secondly, there's a difference b/w driving through a neighborhood and acually living in one!!!
I've worked in Harvey for almost three years (meaning that I'm here at least five days a week for 9 hours a day) and never got jacked, robbed or harassed. My car never was broken into nor was my life threatened, but will my buy a home in Harvey? Heeeelll No!!! Why? Because crime has taken its toll on Harvey. You can see the drug dealers, prostitutes, bumbs, crackheads, vacant land, burnt or boarded up homes, potholes, garbage, bullet proof glass in stores, etc. You don't see that happening in CC Hills. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it'll be a loooooooooong time b4 we turn into Harvey.
Does crime occur YES!, but the crime here is minimal and does not does affects anyone's lifestyle out here nor the look of the neighborhood. Let me repeat....
Crime does not affects anyone's lifestyle out here nor the look of the neighborhood!!!
For your information I've been out here for 21 years.
Your grandparents have a long history with the south suburbs - they were here when it was safe and crime was much lower.
Your experience is all on the downward slope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy
Secondly, there's a difference b/w driving through a neighborhood and acually living in one!!!
Uh ... Duh.
Just because I drive through a neighborhood and don't have a crime committed against me, doesn't mean it's not a crime filled area.
Just because you live in CC Hills and haven't been a crime victim doesn't mean it's not a crime filled area.
How can I possibly make that any clearer?
Now ... let's go back to pride of ownership. There are far more properties that look like crap than there used to be. I don't know how much clearer I can make that.
There's more garbage, more junky cars, more crap in people's yards, more unkept yards, more homes in need of TLC than there used to be in decades past.
Your grandparents have a long history with the south suburbs - they were here when it was safe and crime was much lower.
Your experience is all on the downward slope.
Weeeell, I don't know? When they first moved here, a brick was thrown into their house. The police pulled them over for stupid ****. Most of the neighbors weren't friendly at all (many were though). They would always call the police on them for nothing. Some sprayed graffiti on the side of the house saying "Go back to Africa" (I believe it said that?) and I'm not joking. The white kids at school use to harass my uncle and call him all kinds of names (You probably can guess what one of them were). The other Black neighbors had some similar problems.
Once CC Hills "changed" for good, they never had as nearly as much problems since.
Well...It look like my experience is on the upward slope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity
Uh ... Duh.
Just because I drive through a neighborhood and don't have a crime committed against me, doesn't mean it's not a crime filled area.
Just because you live in CC Hills and haven't been a crime victim doesn't mean it's not a crime filled area.
How can I possibly make that any clearer?
OK....Let me make myself clear. There is a difference b/w driving through and area and living in it. The reason why you don't get jacked in the hood is probably due to the fact that you are driving as fast as you can to get hell out. Plus, you probably have all your doors locked and your windows up. Besides, if you are driving through the hood, then you will probably just be there for a few seconds or minutes at most....... B/c you are Driiiiiviiing!!!!
However, if you actually live in the hood, theirs a much greater chance that you will get jacked or robbed.... B/c you LIIIIIIIIIIVE there.
Example: If I drive on Sibley or 159th Street in Harvey, 9 times out of 10, I won't get robbed. Now, If I buy a home on those streets, the likelyhood of me getting robbed increases dramatically.
Therefore, whether you live in or drive through the vast majority of the south suburbs, you don't have to worry about getting car jacked or robbed on a regular basis. Does it happen? Sure it does, but not as frequent as in the hood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity
Now ... let's go back to pride of ownership. There are far more properties that look like crap than there used to be. I don't know how much clearer I can make that.
There's more garbage, more junky cars, more crap in people's yards, more unkept yards, more homes in need of TLC than there used to be in decades past.
Ok. First of all I noticed that I argue with you on just about every thread I've commented on. I find that kind of odd.
Secondly, Now you're just plain lying!!!!
There is no ****ing garbage, junky cars or crap on people's yards. You're just making all this **** up b/c you don't like the south suburbs. Hell I don't see a fraction of what you see. Most of the suburbs out here are just as clean and well-kept as any other suburb. There are only a handful that isn't.
You don't know what you're talking about, you're makin **** up and I'm done arguing with you.
Trust me. I know the REAL why you don't like the South Suburbs. You're just too damn afraid to say it.
You cannot see the forest for the trees - you truly have a hard time comprehending what I'm saying.
You have it in your head that I mean one thing and no matter how many times or ways I explain it, you're stuck on your version.
And I'll bite on the race card since now you're dancing around it - I don't like the south suburbs because all of the towns that were good, clean & safe towns are now crap. It has nothing to do with the fact that it went from mostly white towns to black - NOTHING.
It has to do with the simple fact that the area that I grew up in, still have family in, still have a big financial stake in - now sucks.
Let me make it quite clear: if the south suburbs where 100% white and everything else was how it it today - the crime, the dirt, the poor schools, the lack care for personal property - I still say it was a crap hole.
You cannot see the forest for the trees - you truly have a hard time comprehending what I'm saying.
You have it in your head that I mean one thing and no matter how many times or ways I explain it, you're stuck on your version.
And I'll bite on the race card since now you're dancing around it - I don't like the south suburbs because all of the towns that were good, clean & safe towns are now crap. It has nothing to do with the fact that it went from mostly white towns to black - NOTHING.
It has to do with the simple fact that the area that I grew up in, still have family in, still have a big financial stake in - now sucks.
Let me make it quite clear: if the south suburbs where 100% white and everything else was how it it today - the crime, the dirt, the poor schools, the lack care for personal property - I still say it was a crap hole.
I'm comprehending Everthing you're are saying. I can read. But, the problem I have is that you are make too many generalizations. You are basically saying that all or the majority of the South Suburban residents don't keep their houses up. And I disagree. I agree that the schools are not the best, but they are not bad. Do they need improvement? Hell Yeah!! I pay too much money to send my kids to a mediocre school. The crime rate (key word: rate) has went up, but the actually crime that affect people is minimal and doesn't have an effect on property values. Now if the rate continues to rise, then we might have a serious problem.
The problem I have with you is that you are telling me one thing about an area that you don't even live in. I'm telling you another thing about the same area, but I live in that area!!!!! That's why I don't believe you. If I was talkin about the area that you live in and I'm obviously don't live there then yo will be pissed too.
You cannot see the forest for the trees - you truly have a hard time comprehending what I'm saying.
You have it in your head that I mean one thing and no matter how many times or ways I explain it, you're stuck on your version.
And I'll bite on the race card since now you're dancing around it - I don't like the south suburbs because all of the towns that were good, clean & safe towns are now crap. It has nothing to do with the fact that it went from mostly white towns to black - NOTHING.
It has to do with the simple fact that the area that I grew up in, still have family in, still have a big financial stake in - now sucks.
Let me make it quite clear: if the south suburbs where 100% white and everything else was how it it today - the crime, the dirt, the poor schools, the lack care for personal property - I still say it was a crap hole.
These reason why I'm dancing around the race care is because I'm not trying to call you a racist. However, the way you are talking about the south burbs is as if you are applying that it was better when....... and now it's worse since....... Even though, in reality, it's not that much of a diffence.
To me, it sounds like you are basically saying--without really saying it--that white folks took care of their property and had better schools and had no crime when I know for a fact that this is false. I do admit that there is some truth to that, but you are blowing things waaaaaaaaaay out of porportion. You are basically telling me that all the South Suburbs are bad, the people lack care of their properties and the schools are completely F#ck%d up. This reminds me of the same stereotypes that Black folks, when in the case of most of the South suburbs is completely false. Sure, it's true for some cities, but not most of them and definately not mine.
That's why I say you are making most of this up. You are making every excuse for why you don't want to live in the South Suburbs. Some of them are legit like schools and even crime to an extent. But when you use words like trash, dirt, filth, unkept properties then I know where you're coming from with that.
Lets face it. White people do not want to live around a whole bunch of Blacks. It don't matter the how rich or poor, clean or dirty, good or bad. Even millionaire Whites don't want to live around millionaire Blacks with the same principles and values. Most people see Blacks and they start running. That's the reason South Suburbs is majority Black in the first place. This is a serious problem in our nation that even Obama can't fix.
In my experience the truth is somewhere in between the two extremes, somewhat close to what suburban_boy is saying. Most neighborhoods are definitely worse after becoming majority black (by common metrics), but they are nowhere close to as bad as white people make them out to be. There seems to be a mixture of valid observations with many more wild exaggerations and generalizations; I personally do believe many of these exaggerations come from the fact that seeing a bunch of black people in and of itself makes a place look kind of run down and undesirable. I know it doesn't sound good, but I've been guilty of it myself before. When you actually immerse yourself in it you realize that 99.9% of the time they aren't doing anything that white people don't do -- we're just kind of conditioned to think that way. Obviously there are exceptions (really bad ghettos) but most areas are pretty tame.
Not to discount Chuckity's perspective; my observation is more general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy
These reason why I'm dancing around the race care is because I'm not trying to call you a racist. However, the way you are talking about the south burbs is as if you are applying that it was better when....... and now it's worse since....... Even though, in reality, it's not that much of a diffence.
To me, it sounds like you are basically saying--without really saying it--that white folks took care of their property and had better schools and had no crime when I know for a fact that this is false. I do admit that there is some truth to that, but you are blowing things waaaaaaaaaay out of porportion. You are basically telling me that all the South Suburbs are bad, the people lack care of their properties and the schools are completely F#ck%d up. This reminds me of the same stereotypes that Black folks, when in the case of most of the South suburbs is completely false. Sure, it's true for some cities, but not most of them and definately not mine.
That's why I say you are making most of this up. You are making every excuse for why you don't want to live in the South Suburbs. Some of them are legit like schools and even crime to an extent. But when you use words like trash, dirt, filth, unkept properties then I know where you're coming from with that.
Lets face it. White people do not want to live around a whole bunch of Blacks. It don't matter the how rich or poor, clean or dirty, good or bad. Even millionaire Whites don't want to live around millionaire Blacks with the same principles and values. Most people see Blacks and they start running. That's the reason South Suburbs is majority Black in the first place. This is a serious problem in our nation that even Obama can't fix.
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I forget to put on the alarm system, lock my car doors and close the garage door all the time, but the years that I've been here, I've never had anyone steal from me or any of my neighbors. Now I know some people here who have been robbed, but for the most part, crime in CC Hill is very random and doesn't affect the majority of people's lifestyle. Now I did have problems with some neighbors, but nothing serious though.
I have to disagree with having less pride of ownership. Maybe in Harvey or Riverdale, but most of the houses here are in good shape. I don't know what parts of the suburbs you been to, but most of the houses in CC Hills, Matteson, Hazel Crest, Olympia Fields, Homewood, Flossmoor, Lynwood, Glenwood, Richton Park, University Park, Crete, Lansing, South Holland, etc. are in good or great shape. 
, but most of the ones out here looks pretty good. I know in CC Hills, if your property doesn't look good then you'll get a citation. My neighbor got a citation for not fixing his gutters.
What the hell are you talkin about?
Your frame of reference is a bit skewed because you have a short time period of comparaison.
... the majority of the south suburbs have been in a steady decline. And in the case of at least two - Cal City and Dolton, the decline has been steep, swift ... and sad.
. 
That's the reason South Suburbs is majority Black in the first place. This is a serious problem in our nation that even Obama can't fix.
