Is all the talk of "project teardown displaced residents ruin neighborhood" just discrete racism? (Chicago: sale, rent)

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Where do the people who live in the projects go to once the projects are torn down? They have to go somewhere.

Most remain in the city. If they do head to the suburbs, its most likely the southern region since most projects were built on the southside. There are little projects or at best slum apartments in the suburbs too, check out the one in Robbins. I read somewhere that Evanston, Harvey, and Chicago Heights have the highest concentration of Section 8 vouchers in the suburbs.

On the side note, public housing still exist in the city. Its just the really big high rises have been knock down.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Good point. This was what I was getting at for the most part. I live in Oak Park, and I find it fascinating about the history as to how Oak Park is so different from neighboring communities.

Oak Park was a conservative, alcohol-banning, WASP, "wide lawns and narrow minds" community, whereas north of North Ave., and south of Roosevelt were white-ethnic, catholic (Polish, Italian, Czech, etc.) communities that were mroe resistant to integration. Maybe Oak Park realized with their much higher quality housing stock, and other cultural amenities were less insecure about their community going downhill and therefore were more welcoming. Fastforward to today, Oak Park is a polished gem, and Cicero which was a "white backlash, mafia-run" community is rather undesirable. It is interesting.

There is also South Holland,IL. It was settled by immgrants from the Zuid-Holland region of The Netherlands. South Holland got its name because Zuid-Holland means South Holland. Today, it is 73% African-American and you can't get alcohol easily in that community. It's crime index has remained below the national average consistently. Median household income is around $71,000. Alcohol and pornography sales are prohibited in South Holland,which are remnants of the beliefs of the Dutch Reform Church. Kind of interesting.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

Most remain in the city. If they do head to the suburbs, its most likely the southern region since most projects were built on the southside. There are little projects or at best slum apartments in the suburbs too, check out the one in Robbins. I read somewhere that Evanston, Harvey, and Chicago Heights have the highest concentration of Section 8 vouchers in the suburbs.

On the side note, public housing still exist in the city. Its just the really big high rises have been knock down.

I brought up the argument because the way I see it, the people have to go somewhere. Many people do not want anyone from the projects coming into their communities regardless if they are criminals or not.

[mas23]

Originally Posted by allen2323

I think white people need to stop blaming black people in general for there problems. If a family from the projects moves next door to you then maybe your neighborhood is not as middle class as you thought it was. I never hear white folks in lake forest, glencoe, kenilworth, etc., complaining. Blame your former white neighbor who sold his house so cheap or who lost his home in foreclosure. Or blame the new landlord who in most cases is white who is renting it out to section 8 former project residents. I am black and live in a nice affluent community that has a majority black population and this type of thing has never happened to me so it isn't black folks in general.

And a bit off subject, but america created this huge underclass within the black community and now america has to suffer with it until more blacks pull themselves out of poverty. With a history of slavery, racial segregation, lacking the right to vote, blacks being taken advantage of economically for so long, and violent racism. The black underclass has greatly shrunk in size over the past 40 years, but it will probably take another 40 years to see anything close to economic equality among the races. Most blacks including middle class blacks and affluent blacks have been on food stamps themselves at atleast one point in there lives, myself included when I was really young. My father grew up in the stateway garden projects. Most adult blacks including the now middle class and affluent ones are not that far removed from an impoverished past and feel no reason to apologize for anything.

good points and I agree with some but, u gotta give someone the blame right

I always found this interesting espeially since something like 80 percent of the people from these highrises remained in the city. At the same time you got people as far as minnesota and even some towns in the south blaming their crime problem on this.

mas23

[dacas1]

"I think white people need to stop blaming black people in general for there problems."

Pot - meet kettle...

"but america created this huge underclass within the black community"

"With a history of slavery, racial segregation, lacking the right to vote, blacks being taken advantage of economically for so long, and violent racism."

I see you have no problem blaming everyone else for yours. Maybe you should take your own advice?

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by rfr69

I've lived in several burbs where thsi has happenned and it always results in problems, even if just minor stuff like car breakins, and things like that.

The areas where the people pushed out of the city move to are generally the areas that are considered the one sketchy area of that particular town. If you look at the police blotter maps in the local paper thats also where all of the crime happens.

One example is the apartments over on Bailey and Washington in Naperville. Why is that 711 always getting robbed? Why are there always police blotters about arrests for minor drug things, car breakins, etc? Also look at all the subsidized apartments in Bolingbrook near Lily Cache and I55, how about that area?

Yes most of the people getting forced out of the city into these nicer burbs are black and most of the time it results in problems. It may not be warm and fuzzy and puppy dogs and ice cream to say but it causes crime and its not just some "white people" not wanting black people in their neighborhood.

If everyone thought this way, Chicago would probably be like Detroit: a largely abandoned city surrounded by nice suburbs, but an overall metro area that is not growing because of the negative image of the central city.

[Humboldt1]

Tex,

Chicago has a strong service sector for jobs. Detroit does not. Big difference.

I do agree that Chicago is one of the few large US cities other than NY where people actually want to live in the city as opposed to the burbs.

Detroit follows a model similar to St. Louis where all the jobs and people with jobs moved to the burbs leaving not much but poverty in the city center. Detroit just got hit harder due to its exposure to auto industry.

[allen2323]

Median household income wise most of the southside looks very similar to the northside. The northside really only has two super high income zip codes that don't compare to the southside and they are lincoln park 60614 and lakeview 60613. We tend to think of the entire northside as being so much more affluent by looking at those two areas and overlook all of the other areas that basically compare to the southside class wise. There are more bars and yuppie functions on the northside for white folks in different areas but those areas on average don't have a higher median household income than many southside neighborhoods do. The southside of chicago is made up of way more middle class areas (or atleast middle class as far as northside chicago standards go)than it has low income areas. And way more nice areas than most people who don't live on the southside care to even notice or give credit for. Many of the nicest areas outside of near downtown are predominantly black and can be found on the southside. Many of these areas are almost entirely black middle class by the way. Chatham, West Chesterfield, Pill Hill, most of woodlawn, most of the south shore, jackson park highlands, morgan park, beverly, hyde park, bronzeville, kenwood, just to name a few. The notion that the entire southside has just totally decayed just isn't the reality in the streets.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by mas23

I always found this interesting espeially since something like 80 percent of the people from these highrises remained in the city. At the same time you got people as far as minnesota and even some towns in the south blaming their crime problem on this.

mas23

Yep. People from Iowa to Minnesota to Kentucky are all talking about how they think people from Chicago's torn down projects are moving into their neighborhood. And yet approximately 80% of these ex-project dwellers relocated elsewhere in the city. Interesting.

[AuDiBelle]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Good point. This was what I was getting at for the most part. I live in Oak Park, and I find it fascinating about the history as to how Oak Park is so different from neighboring communities.

Oak Park was a conservative, alcohol-banning, WASP, "wide lawns and narrow minds" community, whereas north of North Ave., and south of Roosevelt were white-ethnic, catholic (Polish, Italian, Czech, etc.) communities that were mroe resistant to integration. Maybe Oak Park realized with their much higher quality housing stock, and other cultural amenities were less insecure about their community going downhill and therefore were more welcoming. Fastforward to today, Oak Park is a polished gem, and Cicero which was a "white backlash, mafia-run" community is rather undesirable. It is interesting.

Oak Park was very concerned about white flight back in the day. They took very aggressive step to prevent it from happening, including not allowing homeowners to put "For Sale" signs in the yard. I'm not sure if that policy is still in place today. Also, the town made it more expensive for homeowners to sell their properties by forcing them to purchase extremely expensive transfer stamps to the tune of $8/$1000 (the highest in the greater Chicagoland area). Oak Park also had an informal "dispersal principle" that steered black families looking to move into OP towards all-white blocks. They didn't want black families taking over homes block by block, but worked to integrate them into the neighborhood instead.

Oak Park took very aggressive steps to save itself from the fate that many other areas had fallen victim too as whites fled, and they were successful at preserving their town. I don't think that towns would be able to get away with those same tactics today.