Is all the talk of "project teardown displaced residents ruin neighborhood" just discrete racism? (Chicago: salons, apartment)

[Humboldt1]

Urza,

We don't always see eye to eye but I appreciate your openness in this and the other discussions.

Race relations will continue to be a problem for years to come but I think race relations are healthier now than in the past. 50 years ago no way Obama would have been elected.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by urza216

Some people are just uncomfortable with talking about race, I guess. Unfortunately, the problem doesn't go away no matter how much you ignore it.

Whereas others seem obsessed with the topic and want to endlessly pick at the scab, which doesn't strike me as any more productive than ignoring it. It certainly doesn't get ignored on these boards.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Drover

Whereas others seem obsessed with the topic and want to endlessly pick at the scab, which doesn't strike me as any more productive than ignoring it. It certainly doesn't get ignored on these boards.

Then what do you do with the issue of race? There are still some problems.

[ChicagoMeO]

I've lived in many places with many races & economics in Chicago - here's what I discovered that I prefer -

Some people look scarey but they are actually nice. (Look past their clothing).
My current building has all kinds of people but there is no "ghetto culture" in clothing and action. Everyone seems to get along.
I've lived with the homeless in a more "ghetto" neighborhood, didn't feel too safe there, car got damaged, would never live there again.
Would not like to live in a Section 8 building because I feel that people who get free or almost-free rent do not take care of their house as much as a person who is working to afford the high rent. It's not P.C. but I choose my safety over being P.C.
People moving out of CHA need a place to live, and they may be fine people, but sometimes - (even non-CHA folks) oftentimes bring their friends which cause the problems instead of the ex-CHA neighbor who is nice.
Also, gangs move to the suburbs and bring their habits to the suburbs and that's why there are gang problems in the suburbs.
Solution is to start to teach each other how to live respectfully before people move to nicer areas, and then maybe they would shake the above things I mentioned and then be more welcomed into the new area.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

Also, gangs move to the suburbs and bring their habits to the suburbs and that's why there are gang problems in the suburbs.

If a gang is a group of guys who sell drugs together, there are smaller lesser-known gangs that are in fact homegrown in rough suburban neighborhoods. The Beacon Hill subdivision in Chicago Heights appears to have this. A rough neighborhood is a rough neighborhood. The hood is the hood. It's foolish to put all the blame on the big bad city for a poor, run-down suburban neighborhood's gang problem.

You know those guys who sell stolen car stereos? Talk about something that I'm guessing has NOTHING to do with the city. Here in the far south suburbs, every crime and every illegal bossiness transaction that lead to your purchase of a stolen car stereo prabobly took place right here in our backyard. Gangs in the city had nothing to do with it. The illicit drug trade is a completely different story. For all you know, someone overseas in Columbia died for you to snort that line of coke.

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by Chuckity

Allen ... c'mon.

Overall, the south side has more poverty, more unemployment and more violent crime than the north side.

My point was that most people living on either side don't live in areas that fit within these generalizations and extremes. There are two super high income extremes on the northside. They are lincoln park and lakeview. And a few low income, high poverty, violent crime extremes on the southside such as englewood, etc. My point is that Chatham, West Chesterfield, Pill Hill, most of woodlawn, most of the south shore, jackson park highlands, morgan park, beverly, hyde park, bronzeville, kenwood, etc, are more of the norm of most people living on the southside than the few horrible areas. The same way that the super high income extremes of lincoln park and lakeview are not the norm for the entire northside. What about the rest of the northside that has alot more in common with middle income southside neighborhoods than it does with lincon park or lakeview? You know, Albany Park, Edgewater, Ravenswood, Irving Park, Uptown, Roger Park, etc. Your typical northside communities where the majority of folks who live on the northside reside.

[Chuckity]

No, allen.

You said:

The southside of chicago is made up of way more middle class areas (or atleast middle class as far as northside chicago standards go)than it has low income areas.

Which is completely not true.

You're trying to give the impression that the south side is a mirror image of the north side - just flip flop the white residents for the black and minus a few yuppie bars.

It's just not true.

The south side wins the prize when it comes to higher concentrations of povery & crime.

[ajolotl]

On my daily drive on the back roads from my condo in Woodlawn to my house in Beverly the blight (relatively speaking) seems endless. Not so much in the residential districts (many of which are surprisingly tidy) but in the commercial districts. Nothing on the north side comes remotely close to competing with this. Just a fact. Much of the south side looks like a complete dump. There are some very nice areas also, and the dumps aren't nearly as bad and scary as most people think ... but they are dumps, make no mistake about it.

[SJaye]

I think we can all agree that the north side as a whole is wealthier than the south side as a whole, but it would be wrong to characterize either portion of the city homogeneously, as there is a lot of variance from neighborhood to neighborhood and even within a neighborhood.

[Humboldt1]

Another problem is the the north side suburbs tend to be wealthier as a whole than south suburbs which makes the disparity seem even larger. There are certainly wealthy suburbs such as olympia fields and flossmoor and relatively affluent areas such as homewood but many of these areas are surrounded by less affluent areas such as chicago heights, harvey (for south holland).

The north side has some run-down middle class and working class areas in parts of skokie, norwood, harwood heights, evanston but then you have the north shore communities which are all affluent until you reach areas like waukegan and north chicago.

I realize that we are only talking here about chicago neighborhoods but the suburbs that border these neighborhoods have a huge impact on these neighborhoods. If you were living in a chicago neighborhood would you rather be next to a skokie/evanston or harvey/chicago heights?