Best southwest or southern suburb for a young family

[Northwest Indiana]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

This sounds also like an argument against basing school choice on differences in overall test scores -- your child is going to do well "anywhere" because of how you raise them, so who cares if 65% pass in one school and 75% in another?

But here is the thing. Test scores are just one aspect of education. School environment is a factor too. Learning will be more difficult for my children if there are more students/parents who do not place an emphasis on education. When I was younger, I had some behavior problems. I contributed to what one would call "disruption of school environment" although not by serious offenses (mostly just talking out of turn). And I would say "the teacher just didn't like me"...you know what my parents said? They said" the teacher does not HAVE to "like" you, they have to teach you...and you have to learn...and if you need help learning, we as your parents will be here for you! So you have no excuse not to learn"........this is why I value education so much. My parents would stay up till 3 a.m. to help me grasp concepts if they had to! And still go to work on time the next day! Not trying to toot my own horn, but how many parents can you find that will do that today? Not many. Many parents would try to sue the school for telling their child to not speak out of turn or that their child needs extra help (which many parents correlate as "so you think my child is stupid?"). Many schools that have larger African-American populations now are being forced to dumb down curriculum because parents are wanting a "level playing field" because they moved into a rigorous atmosphere instead of ADAPTING to it. My parents moved to Munster because of the good schools and rigorous academics and because they knew other people were like minded in that aspect. My parents do not believe in innate racial differences factoring into school performance. They believe in taking active roles in their children's education. THIS is why my children will make ayp anywhere they attend. But they will NOT attend just anywhere because I only want the best curriculum AND environment that I can afford for my kids. I personally love mature suburbs...But if I cannot afford to buy or even rent in a mature suburb with good schools, you can bet my behind will move to the most close in school district with good schools, and a safe area for my family, that I can afford. And if that means moving all the way to super-suburban Orland Park, that's where I'm going to go. Would I love to be a pioneer and help turn around bad schools? Of course! But not at the expense of my family. You only live once.

[ajolotl]

I can't answer for Chuckity but any reasonable person would say ...
yes, but there are two things: the data and the interpretation of the data. The latter is very subjective and it's very far from clear what conclusions one can draw from a success-by-race breakdown of test scores. You state it as though it's perfectly obvious. Others respond that you are delusional. I'd say that neither is the case. It's one stat that tells one part of the story. Other stats tell other parts. No stat will predict how any individual will perform who enters into the environment that is being characterized statistically. I think the best stat is the score distribution -- if it isn't bi or tri-modal, then the overall average is probably a good substitute. By race .. I need to think about what I can really conclude from that.

Originally Posted by allen2323

Chuckity, I made a factual statement and provided a link to factual data supporting my statement that the white student body at homewood-flossmoor high school makes AYP at a higher rate than the white student body attending Carl Sandberg in Orland Park. And that the black student body attending HF makes AYP at a higher rate than any other open admission public high school's black student body in the entire chicagoland area.

1) I would like to know is this a factual statement that we can both agree on? I would appreciate a yes or no answer followed by a but if you would like to explain your yes or no answer further.

[Northwest Indiana]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I can't answer for Chuckity but any reasonable person would say ...
yes, but there are two things: the data and the interpretation of the data. The latter is very subjective and it's very far from clear what conclusions one can draw from a success-by-race breakdown of test scores. You state it as though it's perfectly obvious. Others respond that you are delusional. I'd say that neither is the case. It's one stat that tells one part of the story. Other stats tell other parts. No stat will predict how any individual will perform who enters into the environment that is being characterized statistically. I think the best stat is the score distribution -- if it isn't bi or tri-modal, then the overall average is probably a good substitute. By race .. I need to think about what I can really conclude from that.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to highlight this in chance that it gets glossed over.

[Northwest Indiana]

Your argument is invalid...I rest my case:

Africans In The United States: Educational Attainment

Oh, and the source is the 2000 census. And the 2010 census is most likely going to show the same trend. SO stop with the race argument. It is all about CULTURE.

Just as RACE is not a reason the majority of people move from an area. It is how the CULTURE changes from good to worse. You think people would be complaining if African immigrants moved into their neighborhood and increased school scores? Doubt it.

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana

Your argument is invalid...I rest my case:

Africans In The United States: Educational Attainment

Oh, and the source is the 2000 census. And the 2010 census is most likely going to show the same trend. SO stop with the race argument. It is all about CULTURE.

Just as RACE is not a reason the majority of people move from an area. It is how the CULTURE changes from good to worse. You think people would be complaining if African immigrants moved into their neighborhood and increased school scores? Doubt it.

Flossmoor and Olympia Fields have among the highest percentages of college graduate adult populations as residents in the chicagoland area. 61.0% of all adult residents living in Flossmoor have a bachelor's degree or higher. 56.0% of all adult residents living in Olympia Fields have a bachelor's degree or higher. That number is around half of that in orland park. Only 31.7% of all adult residents living in Orland Park have a bachelor's degree or higher.

[Northwest Indiana]

Originally Posted by allen2323

Flossmoor and Olympia Fields have among the highest percentages of college graduate adult populations as residents in the chicagoland area. 61.0% of all adult residents living in Flossmoor have a bachelor's degree or higher. 56.0% of all adult residents living in Olympia Fields have a bachelor's degree or higher. That number is around half of that in orland park. Only 31.7% of all adult residents living in Orland Park have a bachelor's degree or higher.

AHA! Skirting around the issue, eh? And Orland Park also have over 50,000 people living there...Oh, and I missed the part where you respond to my FACTUAL information that 100% discounts every argument you made about innate racial differences being a factor in educational attainment...I'm waiting.

Flossmoor as Olympia Fields also have THE highest sub-saharan African residents in the Chicago area which more than likely, account for a good chunk of educational attaintainment that those towns enjoy. There are sub-saharan Africans in Orland too, but they not only make up a smaller percentage of Orland's Black population, they make up a small percentage of Orland's OVERALL population all together. But go ahead. Keep your blinders on.

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana

AHA! Skirting around the issue, eh? And Orland Park also have over 50,000 people living there...Oh, and I missed the part where you respond to my FACTUAL information that 100% discounts every argument you made about innate racial differences being a factor in educational attainment...I'm waiting.

Flossmoor as Olympia Fields also have THE highest sub-saharan African residents in the Chicago area which more than likely, account for a good chunk of educational attaintainment that those towns enjoy. There are sub-saharan Africans in Orland too, but they not only make up a smaller percentage of Orland's Black population, they make up a small percentage of Orland's OVERALL population all together. But go ahead. Keep your blinders on.

I would say that the percent of foreign born africans in flossmoor and olympia fields make up a larger percent of the foreigners living in olympia fields or flossmoor than you will find in other suburbs with fewer blacks. But, the foreign born population as a whole in flossmoor and olympia fields isn't any larger than you will find in any other affluent community. In flossmoor foreign born residents make up 6.1 percent of the population and in olympia fields that number is 5.7 percent.

The overwhelming majority of black folks living in flossmoor and olympia fields are educated american born black professionals like myself. The same can be said for all of the educated whites, asians, and hispanics living in the area. The high educational attainment levels of most of the residents in flossmoor and olympia fields is a big reason why the median household incomes remain so high, and have not fallen like I am sure you are aware of so many other suburban areas have in recent years including munster and most of its NWI neighbors, with the lone exception of st. john. Olympia fields, flossmoor, and burr ridge are the only truely affluent areas in the south and southwest suburban region that have median household incomes above $100,000 a year.

[linicx]

Closed. If you all want to talk about racial issues in Chicago you let me know and I will set the ground rules. The snarky remarks, racial slurs, person allacks and bickering has to stop.