Is Flossmoor diverse now or not? (Chicago, Evanston: condo, house, neighborhoods)

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana

I beg to differrrrrrr

3616 Cherry Hills Drive
Flossmoor, IL 60422

I am assuming it is not a short sale since that was not mentioned in the description. Yes it is in "Flossmoor Hills", if Flossmoor is "solidly upper-middle class" location within the town should not be that drastically different, right?

A single property that you know nothing about in an area that you know probably very little about doesn't really demonstrate anything. I've been home shopping extensively in H-F and know that homes in the really nice areas are priced more like 600K - 1M. I am very aware that Oak Park is more expensive for an equivalent house (if that's what you're responding to), but there is no sense in exaggerating by rolling out a list of the cheapest H-F homes (with no regard to location) and then, when presented with a counterexample of cheap listings in Oak Park, claiming that the fringe areas are "off limits" in the discussion.

[ajolotl]

No, many of the nicest towns still have their (relatively) cheaper areas. H-F is no different.

Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana

If Flossmoor is "solidly upper-middle class" location within the town should not be that drastically different, right?

[allen2323]

Either way. There are basically two wealthy neighborhood areas in the southern part of suburban chicago. The area around the the Flossmoor Country Club known as "Flossmoor estates" and an exclusive subdivision adjacent to the Prestwick Country Club in exurban Frankfort. The other areas in flossmoor I would describe as being either middle class or affluent.

[linicx]

I am not convinced that discussing anything except the information the OP wants is ierriblly constructive. Comparing housing prices in H-F to OP is akin to comparing demographics between Atlanta and Dallas. It is loser. So is the race issue. Does H-F or OF have any area comparable to
the worst areas on Austin; who cares? The subtle idea that black kids are dumb is dumber than a box of rocks - since AP scores tell a different story. And it is dumb to even mention.

The fact is when you get south of the IKE in any direction you will not find any all white towns, and that is NOT the question the OP is asking, anyway. If you want that, then move into a small farming comunity of 200 where everyone went to school together and most of the town is related through marriage. I guarantee you'll be 50 miles from a big city of 100,000 and at least 150 miles from a town the size of St. Louis. Everywhere else in America you will find yellow, red, black, brown and white neighbors. Neighborhoods transition. It does not mean that all neighborhoods wlll spiral downward. It does not happen without a catastropic economic change.
Since there are no auto manufacturing plants in H-F or OF, and no one as mentioned 1600 sec 8 units being built in H-F and OF, I don't think the median family income is going to be an issue very soon, although it may fluate slightly.

Kudos to anyone willing to take a chance on Blue Ribbon Teachers and Blue Ribbon people because they are going to find it where they live.

Do we have any other practical advices about commute times and schools? A communte is going to be a problem for one parent.

[linicx]

Maybe our Blue Ribbon teachers in Blue Ribbon schools deserve a little credit, eh?

"Among states with 25 or more test-takers, Illinois ranks No. 1 in the nation in the percentage of students scoring a 3 or higher on AP Exams in Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism: 79.6 percent of seniors in Illinois earned a score of 3 or higher on this exam, compared to 68.4 percent of seniors nationally."
Midwest States Make Strides in Students Taking, Succeeding on AP® Exams

[Humboldt1]

Linicx,

Are you encouraging folks to move into an area where 1600 section 8 units are being built?

I was not aware of those units being built in HF and OF but if true that does not bode well for the area.

We all know what happens to areas as the section 8 population increases.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Linicx,

Are you encouraging folks to move into an area where 1600 section 8 units are being built?

I was not aware of those units being built in HF and OF but if true that does not bode well for the area.

We all know what happens to areas as the section 8 population increases.

Lininx said this isn't a Section 8 area. And no, there's no section 8 in any of the Olympia Fields mansions. Claims of Section 8 in Olympia Fields (why are we even talking about Olympia Fields?) or Homewood-Flossmoor make about as much sense as trying to use a bed to hunt a deer.

There aren't even any rental units in the first place in Flossmoor or Olympia Fields..

[ajolotl]

While I agree many threads veer into irrelevant longstanding debates, I don't see the current discussion as irrelevant to the OP's question. Whether an area is racially diverse of not (original question) depends on whether one sees it as transitioning or potentially equilibrated. Those who see transition as a fait accompli law of nature provide data aimed to demonstrate the neighborhood's decline (including home prices) as evidence that no one (white) will want to move there. In my view this data is often one-sided and the claims of deterioration are greatly exaggerated and intermixed with unfair racial stereotypes, thus I try to provide some counter-evidence to give the OP a different or at least broader perspective. Whether an equivalent house in OP is 1.5-2x as much or 2-3x as much is maybe a bit of a stretch, but I don't see the urgency to squelch the discussion. It seems civil and at least tangentially relevant to the debate.

[Humboldt1]

Race and other things such as income and education and crime all work together to determine whether or not an area is desirable to certain groups of people.

Areas maintaining "diversity" is largely a myth. Outside of a few examples like Oak Park, which is not all that diverse to start with, areas are mostly in transition from one thing to another, not always racially.

There are plenty of neighborhoods in America that are not that diverse, and many are located near major cities.

Linicx,

Do you really think everyone in small farming towns in related thru marriage? I come from a small farming community. My mother is from Missouri and my dad only has a few cousins within the county. I have one aunt and one great aunt who live in the same county. I have no other relatives apart from the son of my grandfather's first cousin. So, apart from my aunt and great aunt, my closest relative is my 3rd cousin. Outside of that, I have two 4th cousins. I only know all of this because my grandmother was big into geneology and kept great records.

My area was 1 hour from Indianapolis (1.7MM people) and 1 hour from Cincinnati (2.2MM), 90 minutes from Louisville (1.3MM), and 90 minutes from Dayton (1MM) and it is 99% white (1% asian). Your argument that there is diversity unless you are far from a big city falls short.

All neighborhoods transition, but some slower than other. Some stay relatively the same, particularly in rural areas. Cities are more in transition. Some of my family's farm has been in the family since the 1840s. We are not alone in that area. The same is true in other parts of the rural midwest. Sure things change, but nothing like you see in the city, where entire areas go up or down every few decades. Just look at Bucktown. 20 years ago it was a borderline slum. Or look at Garfield Park. Until the 1950s, madison was vibrant commercial corridor.

[ajolotl]

First, to be clear -- I'm not talking about diversity in general but black/white integration in Chicago.
It's no secret that Chicago is shockingly racially segregated. The black-white divisions in particular go way beyond just a normal taste for being around "similar people". I don't think it is a good thing for anyone for many reasons. The history is what it is, no sense in going over it or assigning blame one way or the other. That said, things have changed a little bit in the past 20 years. I live in the middle of an area that is very deeply racially integrated (house by house, with no trend one way or the other). Younger people who move in have a different perspective than 20 years ago. Often people judge others negatively based mainly on a lack of familiarity and very superficial impressions (such as farm boys marrying their cousins). Younger people seem less affected by the traditional stereotypes that I grew up with. So, I could never say something wholesale like "integrated neighborhoods are a myth". There are relatively very very few, but there are also some indications that they might become more common in the future. Bottom line is that I think it is a good thing and something to strive for (since I fundamentally believe that people are all pretty much the same). Not everyone agrees. I'm ok with that and don't need to be right, just want to do my part to provide a balanced perspective.