Can Dolton be saved? (Chicago, Cicero: real estate, employment, schools)

[knighthood82]

Originally Posted by allen2323

Now a much better neighboring suburb is South holland. I would call south holland a real gem. And in my opinion south holland looks great. I would personally say that south holland looks the best that it has ever looked. Very appealing.

I would agree that most of the neighborhoods of South Holland are well kept. The problem is along 159th/Rt.6 corridor (the center of town). There are so many large vacant storefronts and empty asphalt lots that its hard to just drive through and think that you're in a vibrant community. It comes off more as a place in decline. There is a lot of street frontage sitting empty and looking very overgrown and deteriorating - old Gibson Chevy complex, old Dick James Ford, old Thomas Pontiac - now a BP station next to a large vacant lot, old Saturn dealership - real eyesore, old Clark station - now empty lot, old Walgreens building, ect. I really think the mayor should have waited longer until he knew for sure that the Metra Southeast line was coming in soon before he sold off most of the old downtown to his buddy Ralph Edgar and had it leveled. The old downtown used to have an actual authentic look to it. In an effort to make it look more like Homewood by adding Brownstones and new retail it's now dominated by empty gravel parking lots- what a shame. The village has spent a lot lately improving aesthetics like the underpass on 159th and Veterans Park but really should be doing more to redevelop the main commercial corridor. Maybe tax abatements would work (since property taxes there are skyrocketing beyond profitabilty for many businesses that may be looking to relocate there). I would say that to the casual observer that's just driving through that Cal City (along 159th and Torrence Ave) and Lansing (along Torrence Ave and Ridge Rd) looks nicer than South Holland.

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by knighthood82

I would agree that most of the neighborhoods of South Holland are well kept. The problem is along 159th/Rt.6 corridor (the center of town). There are so many large vacant storefronts and empty asphalt lots that its hard to just drive through and think that you're in a vibrant community. It comes off more as a place in decline. There is a lot of street frontage sitting empty and looking very overgrown and deteriorating - old Gibson Chevy complex, old Dick James Ford, old Thomas Pontiac - now a BP station next to a large vacant lot, old Saturn dealership - real eyesore, old Clark station - now empty lot, old Walgreens building, ect..

There are a good hundred vacant american brand auto dealerships litering chicagoland alone. The big american auto makers filed bankruptcy and auto dealership closures do to corporate consolodation was a big fall out from that. Most people understand and know exactly what those vacant auto dealerships are. Because they are everywhere, not just unique to south holland. Some have been turned into used car lots, but most sit in communities as vacant eye sores.

But aside from the vacant auto dealerships, much of what I see on 159th is fairly new and wasn't there 5-10 years ago. There is a lot of redevelopement that has taken place more than anything. I know the Walgreens on 159th is brand new. And is right next door to the brand new chase bank. The old closed vacant walgreens is just part of redevelopement. It didn't shutter it's doors, just relocated down the street to a brand new store. Lots of nice boutique stuff and sit down restaurants. I eat at the blueberry field pancake house fairly often. I sometimes eat at the wing stop off 159th and state street also. If I had to guess, minus the auto dealerships. south holland is at a 95 percent plus retail occupancy rate. Being an inner ring burb, South Holland gets a lot of traffc congestion and that is good for sustaining retail. I drive all the way to south holland sometimes just to grab a sub from my favorite sub place the submarine port. The submarine port is the bomb. The retail looks pretty impressive to me for an inner ring southern suburb such as south holland. Quality family owned retailers like Walts grocery also help to distinguish south holland in my opinion. There really isn't any other inner ring suburbs south of chicago comparable as far as also having quality commercial, other than Crestwood and oak lawn. And to me crestwood and oak lawn just aren't as nice of places to live as south holland.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by His Majesty

The dark cloud of poverty and crime that has befallen it.

Can Dolton, and other south Chicago towns, find some way to rebound again, to regain their safe and productive communities?

My dad's side of the family can trace its roots back to Polish immigrants on the southeast side of Chicago.. My bloodline on both sides almost entirely consists of industrial workers. My aunt, uncle, cousin and second cousin were the last white family to leave their block in Dolton. They moved to Lowell, Indiana about five years ago. My uncle worked in the steel mill and my aunt worked at a laundromat and they used the money they earned to buy their house in Dolton.

I really don't agree with you and lean more towards Allen's perspective. Idyllic suburban life? Nah, it was always a blue collar community. And to answer your question: They'll become safe and productive again when the rich and powerful bring the industrial jobs back to the United States instead of China and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by allen2323

Most of the older residential neighborhoods in dolton are located very close to industrial which also makes it less desirable. Who wants to live next to a factory unless you happen to work there?

It really is a shame - all the industry that has left the south suburbs, NWI and Kankakee County.

*Made in China

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Sure is sad, Hopefully someday it will come back


could not get the link to work for some reason google
chicago southland economic development

you may know about that site but it has some cool things going on with the planning of things here in the c southland

[Chicago76]

Blighted suburbs are nearly impossible to resurrect for two reasons:

1) they don't have the resources to marshall a comeback
2) outsiders likely won't invest in the suburb as most have nothing substantially different about it to offer than another suburb down the way.

Suburbs that pull this off tend to be ones
-with historic housing stock and potential commercial districts you can't find in many (if any) other 'burbs at a remotely comparable price,
-near mass transit lines,
-near major employment centers that would appeal to middle income workers (a mix of both professional and skilled)
-have fallen on hard times, but aren't in complete disrepair

[LIS123]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

Blighted suburbs are nearly impossible to resurrect for two reasons:

1) they don't have the resources to marshall a comeback
2) outsiders likely won't invest in the suburb as most have nothing substantially different about it to offer than another suburb down the way.

Suburbs that pull this off tend to be ones
-with historic housing stock and potential commercial districts you can't find in many (if any) other 'burbs at a remotely comparable price,
-near mass transit lines,
-near major employment centers that would appeal to middle income workers (a mix of both professional and skilled)
-have fallen on hard times, but aren't in complete disrepair

I agree with this. Just ask yourself: how many blighted suburbs can you think of that have improved with time? What appears more common are areas that used to be underdeveloped and eventually begin to grow. This is quite different from declining suburbs that undergo a renaissance.

[urza216]

Dolton isn't really that "blighted"..

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by urza216

Dolton isn't really that "blighted"..

Stopped in at the Doltons Menards yesterday and I was obserbant but it was a busy place.
Sure Dolton is not Naperville or Oak Park but its certainly not blighted.

The place was busy people were friendly typical stereotype of Dolton
with people thinking its bad because of probably the racial make-up

[Chicago76]

Originally Posted by LIS123

I agree with this. Just ask yourself: how many blighted suburbs can you think of that have improved with time? What appears more common are areas that used to be underdeveloped and eventually begin to grow. This is quite different from declining suburbs that undergo a renaissance.

Yeah, sorry. Blighted wasn't the best use of words in this case. Dolton is more of an area that has experienced decline. Still, I think a lot of the same principles apply to suburbs that have declined a bit with age. It's difficult to reverse (or to even slow) the trend. Young couples of a certain economic status who want to invest in an area over years are what it takes to revitalize a suburb. They are the "engines" so to speak.

Take a young couple middle class couple who work as nurses, teachers, in skilled trades, selling insurance, etc. who don't want extremely urban living. Assume the are employed somewhere in the south suburbs or in nearby Indiana. They may be looking for a starter home in the 125-225 range. Compare what Dolton offers to other areas in the general region: Munster, Tinley Park, Beverly, Homewood, Riverdale etc. in terms of schools, Metra access, walkable retail area, perceived safety, political will to make things happen.

I don't know the area very well, so this is a question for you guys. If I had to guess, I'd say that Dolton doesn't score at the top of the list on many of these items (and others a young couple might evaluate). Overall, it might be closer to the bottom of the list. The one are where Dolton fares well would be bang for the buck in housing, but keep in mind the couple above probably has more money, and they're probably willing to spend a bit more for "amenities". As long as there are more attractive options that the hypothetical young couple above can afford in the area, it will be difficult to mount any substantial turnaround.

[Sandra<3]

Dolton doesn't look half bad south of 147th/Sibley.