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Again, I really do appreciate the encouraging comments about broadening our circles to find friends within a community. We lived contentedly on both sides of Chicago and in the northern suburbs as a younger couple before children. We both grew up in segregated parts of the Chicago area in the '60s and '70s. Oak Park did seem a logical destination for raising biracial kids. My surprise is at the extent to which backyard parties and children's playgroups in my neighborhood are not integrated. The churches in town seem segregated too from what I can tell. I am being judgmental in that I do find this unacceptable. I think people don't want to think about it anymore. So I came to this forum, because I really hope to get a sense of whether there are suburbs, as well as parts of Oak Park, where people are interested in making friends with people from different backgrounds. I know things have improved a lot since I was growing up in the area, and I'd like to learn more about how they suburbs have changed, hopefully for the better.
I feel ya, especially about your kids. Sorry you got on a "challenging block". There is not a way to truly get the vibe until you are living it. I live on a challenging block now. I'd hate for you guys to up and move and then hit another challenging block. So what can you do now? I would suggest taking a walk through the neighborhood, maybe just you and your spouse. If you have a dog all the better. Animals are great ice breakers. There are bound to be a few folks that you gel with.
I do get the overall segregation thing. That unfortunately is not unusual, especially in Chicago. In the 4-5 places I have lived as a married adult with child, they have all been friendly neighborhoods: Chicago - Southside - majority black, Flossmoor - integrated albeit" changing", Arizona - Red Mountain Ranch area - majority white. But where I live now in suburban Ga, not so friendly next door neighbors, but crazily integrated.
On a side note, I have NEVER in my life seen so much across the board integration on a social and personal level than here where we live in Ga. The church, the neighborhoods, the schools, backyard BBQ's. Not just the standard black and white but literally everyone! I love it! Nor have I EVER seen so many interracial couples and families - everywhere. Again not just the usual b&w.
Hang in there. I would suggest to not move just yet, especially if you don't have to. Especially if you just bought a house/have a mortgage. Try some new comers groups, library programs, kids sports - I met many people that way - through my kid's activities. Walk the dog, run through the neighborhood. I bet there is someone who feels just the way you do and has been wondering where YOU are ??
I grew up in an integrated environment in a suburb you north and west suburbanites prabobly haven't even heard of.
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Originally Posted by chitownperson
As far as segregation goes... similar (sort of) suburbs like Evanston are worse off where the less affluent black kids don't meet the affluent white kids until high school, and then they are all suppose to get along? You don't hear about segregation issues a lot of other suburbs because they either have a huge white majority or black majority.
I'm calling nonsense on this one. Actually, there are many south suburbs with a similar mix of races as Oak Park - only it's black people instead of white people and unlike Oak Park, there's virtually no Asian population. Oak Park is only 22% black according to the 2010 census.
Growing up in Park Forest and attending the public schools, it was always racially mixed classroom from k-12. Yes, by the time I was in high school it was pushin' 80% black (kinda like Oak Park but in reverse). On this forum, you read a lot of talk about how diverse communities in Chicagoland are just neighborhoods in transition. But in the suburbs, these" transitions" tend to take 20 or more years and it gives you plenty of time to raise a kid in a diverse environment. Those in my age group (twenty somethings) who grew up in my hometown and many of the nearby suburbs are living proof...
I like Oak Park. I like it a lot actually. If I had the means and it made sense as far as work was concerned, I just might get an apartment in Oak Park, Forest Park or Berwyn. But people who put Oak Park and Evanston on a pedestal like this are speaking out ignorance.. It's not that special. These towns have what I like to call "convenient diversity" (where the whites continue to remain in a clear majority over all other races combined).
urza216, I never said that there were NO other suburbs that have "diversity", and I was never putting OP or Evanston on a "pedestal", I was using them as comparisons for how diversity doesn't mean integration, and is dependent on how integration is structured, so I don't really know what you're calling "nonsense" on. And your pie charts for the most part DO show that many of these towns have a black of white majority, which is what I said... you just don't hear about the segregation issues as much as places some places since they have largely transitioned (as some like to say) - you do however hear about the segregation in Evanston (again, using the high school as an example of how it's difficult to integrate people if they're spent a good portion of their lives being use to segregation).
Your "convenient diversity" statement sounds like you think that OP and Evanston are set up to be for white people who want feel like they accept black people, but use black people more as a token to make themselves feel better about their own humanity... am I reading too deep? So if there is one racial majority in a town, would that make that town conveniently diverse? Or does it only count when it's a "white" majority? How are Asian majorities, or black majorities, or Middle Eastern majorities... not a part of your "convenient diversity" idea?
urza216, I never said that there were NO other suburbs that have "diversity", and I was never putting OP or Evanston on a "pedestal", I was using them as comparisons for how diversity doesn't mean integration, and is dependent on how integration is structured, so I don't really know what you're calling "nonsense" on.
Why is no in all caps? MOST south suburbs east of I-57 have just as much black-white diversity as Oak Park or Evanston - only it's often blacks who are in the majority not whites.
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Originally Posted by chitownperson
And your pie charts for the most part DO show that many of these towns have a black of white majority, which is what I said...
But none of them had a huge black or white majority. So it's not exactly what you said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson
you just don't hear about the segregation issues as much as places some places since they have largely transitioned (as some like to say) -
But the thing is, many many of the south suburbs that have been claimed to have "transitioned" still have around a 22% white population (kinda like Oak Park's 22% black population). So not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson
you do however hear about the segregation in Evanston (again, using the high school as an example of how it's difficult to integrate people if they're spent a good portion of their lives being use to segregation).
Coming from the southland, I found that part of your post very interesting..
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson
Your "convenient diversity" statement sounds like you think that OP and Evanston are set up to be for white people who want feel like they accept black people, but use black people more as a token to make themselves feel better about their own humanity... am I reading too deep?
No, that's pretty much what I was suggesting. The word "convenient" implies all of the fun with none of the hassle.
Liberal-minded whites can move to Oak Park or Evanston with no fear of being the minority or ever becoming the minority. And then they can pat themselves on the back for being more open-minded than those living in Downers Grove or Willmette... This kind of pettiness is human nature, really.
Just for the record, I appreciate the diversity that the near west suburbs as a whole appear to have and I like that there seems to be more white girls than where I come from. I also like all the retail, stuff to do, the semi-urban environment, walkability, coffee shops, radical leftism and close proximity to the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson
So if there is one racial majority in a town, would that make that town conveniently diverse? Or does it only count when it's a "white" majority? How are Asian majorities, or black majorities, or Middle Eastern majorities... not a part of your "convenient diversity" idea?
In theory, you're right. It doesn't matter and all of the above falls under the same idea. In reality, it's usually only white people who get downright GIDDY about the idea of a diverse community.. but then turn around and appear uncomfortable with the idea of their race being less than 50%. Maybe because we're the majority in the United States as a whole.
Well, wouldn't a truly diverse town have representative populations reflective of the general population at large, or would that not be considered diverse enough unless the white population was lower than that of the hispanic/black/asian populations combined? I think the best "diverse" community would be one with representative population numbers, but I guess some people are uncomfortable with representative populations of folks unless the whites are outnumbered.
Yes, in the US " racial diversity" means a mix of black and white people, and sometimes Hispanic... everywhere else it means a mix of a lot of different racial groups.
Yes, in the US " racial diversity" means a mix of black and white people, and sometimes Hispanic... everywhere else it means a mix of a lot of different racial groups.
hmmm.. What other counties are you talking about? Very few counties have diversity that even compares to the United States. The international city of Hong Kong is over 90% Asian. Tokyo, one of the largest city's in the world, is also over 90% Asian. Try comparing that to New York, Chicago or LA. Guess how many non-Hispanics live in Mexico City. Or how many non-whites live in Paris. Political leaders in Canada boast about their county's diversity but they have significantly less diversity than the United States.
Only so many counties even talk about "diversity" in the first place..
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Originally Posted by whatyousay
Well, wouldn't a truly diverse town have representative populations reflective of the general population at large, or would that not be considered diverse enough unless the white population was lower than that of the hispanic/black/asian populations combined? I think the best "diverse" community would be one with representative population numbers, but I guess some people are uncomfortable with representative populations of folks unless the whites are outnumbered.
I think a perfectly diverse Chicago suburb would represent the demographics of Chicagoland at large - not the United States at large.
You might be correct about Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Mexico City, but you're incorrect (no offense, just pointing out the facts) about Paris & Canada's large cities. Canada's major cities are extremely diverse (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc.) with immigrants from all over the world. Paris is also very diverse, and has struggled with its rapid immigration of Muslims from African and Southasian countries that haven't quite integrated fully with the French society at large. You see the same thing playing out in London, and some of the other large western European cities as well. Western Europe is actually extremely diverse and definitely more diverse than the Midwest region in USA with the exception of Chicago and pockets of Minneapolis, Metro Detroit, etc.
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Originally Posted by urza216
hmmm.. What other counties are you talking about? Very few counties have diversity that even compares to the United States. The international city of Hong Kong is over 90% Asian. Tokyo, one of the largest city's in the world, is also over 90% Asian. Try comparing that to New York, Chicago or LA. Guess how many non-Hispanics live in Mexico City. Or how many non-whites live in Paris. Political leaders in Canada boast about their county's diversity but they have significantly less diversity than the United States.
Only so many counties even talk about "diversity" in the first place..
By the way, why does no one ever boast the diversity of Harvey? Don't get me wrong. Harvey is a rotten place BUT It actually has a lot more going for it than other similarly rotten places like Ford Heights, Robbins or Englewood. Diversity is one of these things.
By the way, why does no one ever boast the diversity of Harvey? Don't get me wrong. Harvey is a rotten place BUT It actually has a lot more going for it than other similarly rotten places like Ford Heights, Robbins or Englewood. Diversity is one of these things.
How is a town that is over 75% of one race "diverse?"
If someone thinks that is diverse, Lake View for example is just as "diverse" as these towns.
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??
I grew up in an integrated environment in a suburb you north and west suburbanites prabobly haven't even heard of.
