Looking for the Impossible! (Is Berwyn the answer?) (Chicago, Cicero: condo, crime)
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Palatine, Rolling Meadows, Mt. Prospect and Wheeling are worth considering. Although there are some areas in all 4 towns to avoid (mainly those that have high concentration of large apartment buildings), most neighborhoods are decent and safe. There is diversity also, and good to excellent schools. Seriously, if you research high school districts 211 & 214 which serves these areas, you will find out for yourself. The only question becomes finding the more desirable elementary school districts within these areas at a price point that works. My choices are D25, D57, D23. D15 and D26 are not bad but I'm not a fan of D59 & D21.
Any other ideas for places with the interesting/older housing of Flossmoor, let's say average size lots, and good schools?
That's a tough one. Most places with great older housing stock AND great schools tend to be the priciest spots in the region: La Grange, River Forest, North Shore, etc. Particularly if you want a big lot! Interesting/upscale/older housing might be the hardest of your criteria to meet at $225K.
At that price point, with five kids, if I were you I'd want to latch onto a desirable high school district, and maybe select a neighborhood in the attendance area that is "underrated". It doesn't have the cachet of nearby neighborhoods because the homes are older or something, and is really priced below what it delivers.
There are several, not elite, but quite decent high school districts with attractive but affordable neighborhoods feeding in in the southwest suburbs. I'm thinking of Burbank (Reavis H.S.), Alsip, Crestwood and parts of Palos Heights (Shepard H.S.), the east part of Tinley Park (Tinley Park H.S.), Orland Hills (Andrew H.S.), and Oak Forest (Oak Forest H.S.). All of these are close to or on the Metra SWS or Rock Island; SWS serves Union Station but mediocre service, and the Rock Island serves La Salle Street Station but service is extensive.
I wouldn't bother with Morton West High School personally, but there are some somewhat cheaper suburbs around there feeding into good schools: Brookfield (props to chet) and Countryside.
themag, I am OK with Elmwood Park. It has easy access to downtown which is good. I was there 7 (!) years ago and it looked OK. Not sure what it's like now?
urza, I was just looking at Homewood. Seems like a good place-- already found a house I like. Taxes are OK and has good schools. What is it like there? My husband is worried it is too far from everything. We are not familiar at all with anything south.
cubssox, I have been checking out those suburbs. Was surprised when I looked up a school in Palatine that it did not score so well. For some reason I thought that would not be a concern. However, I know that those ratings are far from the end all/be all, but it's the only basis I have right now. I will keep your suggestions in mind re: the school districts.
meatpuff, yeah, I know I am asking for the impossible! I know most people want "charm" (though not my husband!) and location, is, of course, key. I have been doing exactly what you said-- keeping my eye on high schools and seeing what I can get in the area. A little overwhelming since we are fairly open re: location at this point. Thank you for the suburb recommendations-- I will research them.
Regarding schools, they do NOT have to be elite. I would prefer them not to be, truth be told, because my kids will certainly not be among the "haves." I have all girls and worry about the "mean girl" attitude, as well as them seeing what they don't have compared to their friends. I would, however, like schools, where the children are respected. That is my biggest problem with some schools who serve underprivileged children, is that sometimes less is expected of them, and they function more as a warehouse/factory vs a place of inspiration and challenge.
Here is another crazy idea of mine, though my husband is not sold at all on it. What if I look at getting a 2 flat on the northside of Chicago? This seems like a good way to get a lot of space at a good price. Once my kids are older (college age) they could have their own space, and eventually we could rent out the other unit. He is concerned the space will feel to separate, but I don't see it as too different than a finished basement. Thoughts?
If I have been following the thread correctly the OP is currently living in Lombard and is upside down on a SMALLISH house. If they get out from under they MIGHT be able to afford $225K .
If they were to try to find a legal two flat in their price range they MIGHT be able to find something in like Albany Park. The lot size would probably by 30 x 125 and they might have a garage but that would hardly qualify as "spacious yard" in my book. In such an area the "school yard / play lot" is also likely pretty compact and even access to rapid transit is not ideal. Coupled with the notoriusly byzantine process of gaining admission to a selective public school this seens like a really steep set of transitions for the whole family...
Some of the towns mentioned (even by me) literally have a dozen or fewer homes that fit the OP's desire for more space at ther price point. It is going to be a tough set of compromises...
I understand the concerns about the OP's daughters "fitting in" and believe me folks with a budget that is literally 5x more have expressed to me the EXACT same fears of "mean girls" so I assure you it is NOT just about the absolute amount of what the family can afford but also of the attidues of how easily it is to find neighbors with similar values. I assure you, having taught in a variety of schools, public and private, in Chicago and the burbs, the schools with the best staff go out of their way to help students get along and not foster unhealthy exclusionary behaviors. The way to find those schools is almost always to focus on the schools where high school is NOT the "end of the line" for anyone but pretty much a universal expectation that ALL the kids are going on to further education. It is ABSOLUTELY not about the "haves" of material wealth but very much about those kids who come from a home with high expectations. Avoiding schools with a high percentage of high achievers is 100% opposite of what I would recommend...
Finally I gotta say that depending on what your "everything" means every home shopper has to be very careful in what they "rule out". Fact is if your kids play pretty much any sport the baseball diamonds, soccer fields, ice rinks, and basketball courts of the north suburbs are indistginuishable from those of the west or south suburbs. So to "dance studios", "gymnastics arena" or bowling alley (still and IHSA sport). The libraries in pretty much every town have nearly identical collections for the "young adult" reading shelves. The grocery stores (whether they be part of national chains or some local / ethnic /halal type place) sell remarkably similar goods at very close to standard prices. The places of worship are pretty similar. What is DIFFERENT is what your commute to work is currently AND the options nearby should you need / want to change employers. The really "biggie" is what is the distance from your "support" -- whether you have a big family or a lot of friends or just a small group of one or the other when relocating WITHIN the region that is FAR AND AWAY going to be deciding factor of how much "change" you can tolerate...
I have never been to Berwyn but wonder if it would fit the bill. I know the HS is far from the best, but is it THAT bad? My oldest child wants to go to IMSA eventually but obviously we can't count on that. How bad is the crime compared to the places I've grown up? How congested is it?
. . .
Depends on how you define "that bad." It doesn't score well on the PSAE at this time, but you can get a good eduction there if you stay involved. And there's many private high schools around Berwyn, including Fenwick, St. Joseph, and Nazareth. And Berwyn's elementary and middle schools are better than the high school, so many people do public school through 8th grade and then go private for high school.
Crime was 3,200/100,000 in 2009 per the ISP UCR data. To compare, Homewood was 3,700/100k and Oak Park was 4,400/100k. These numbers will be higher than Lombard (2,800/100k) but it's safe so long as you use common sense. I've been here almost 10 years now and never been victimized.
Congestion is greatest in areas where there are the larger apartment concentrations -- mainly north of Cermak. In those areas, it's similar to a typical Chicago neighborhood. South of Cermak is a little less congested but Berwyn is a fully built up urban area. So if you're comparing it to Geneva, you will conclude it is congested. Lots are typically 30-35' x 135' for a Chicago bungalow.
This house is available in the Emerson Elementary/Heritage Middle school area for under 200k. Both of those schools are very good. It's a nice bungalow in a nice neighborhood, and taxes are in the 4,000 range. It's about 4 blocks from the Metra and has a very good walk score, meaning you can walk to parks and amenities, unlike most places Geneva...
For better or worse the "thifty" heritage of Berwyn does mean...
...that taxes are darned reasonable. While in an absolute sense there are probably bigger bargains (like a the rare smaller older home on a compact interior lot in Oak Brook) you won't find too many places with relative tax burden as tolerable as Berwyn. Of course there are those that'd say "you get what you pay for" in terms of modest schools /parks too, though to them I'd point up the comparison to a generic spot inside Chicago leaves Berwyn looking pretty good by comparison. And if you factor in the typically higher surcharge that the assessors slap on a two flat it would make a whole lot more sense just to get a single family bungalow that has fully built-out attic or basement ( or one that you could inexpensively convert into additional living space if it is currrently unfinished...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
Depends on how you define "that bad." It doesn't score well on the PSAE at this time, but you can get a good eduction there if you stay involved. And there's many private high schools around Berwyn, including Fenwick, St. Joseph, and Nazareth. And Berwyn's elementary and middle schools are better than the high school, so many people do public school through 8th grade and then go private for high school.
Crime was 3,200/100,000 in 2009 per the ISP UCR data. To compare, Homewood was 3,700/100k and Oak Park was 4,400/100k. These numbers will be higher than Lombard (2,800/100k) but it's safe so long as you use common sense. I've been here almost 10 years now and never been victimized.
Congestion is greatest in areas where there are the larger apartment concentrations -- mainly north of Cermak. In those areas, it's similar to a typical Chicago neighborhood. South of Cermak is a little less congested but Berwyn is a fully built up urban area. So if you're comparing it to Geneva, you will conclude it is congested. Lots are typically 30-35' x 135' for a Chicago bungalow.
This house is available in the Emerson Elementary/Heritage Middle school area for under 200k. Both of those schools are very good. It's a nice bungalow in a nice neighborhood, and taxes are in the 4,000 range. It's about 4 blocks from the Metra and has a very good walk score, meaning you can walk to parks and amenities, unlike most places Geneva...
...that taxes are darned reasonable. While in an absolute sense there are probably bigger bargains (like a the rare smaller older home on a compact interior lot in Oak Brook) you won't find too many places with relative tax burden as tolerable as Berwyn. Of course there are those that'd say "you get what you pay for" in terms of modest schools /parks too, though to them I'd point up the comparison to a generic spot inside Chicago leaves Berwyn looking pretty good by comparison. And if you factor in the typically higher surcharge that the assessors slap on a two flat it would make a whole lot more sense just to get a single family bungalow that has fully built-out attic or basement ( or one that you could inexpensively convert into additional living space if it is currrently unfinished...).
Taxes in Oak Park or Riverside on the same size house would be double this. This house in Riverside is about 1/8 mile away from the bungalow I posted. Tax comparison -- $4,300 v. $10,600.
Saving 6k per year in taxes pays for a lot of private school, given that you can use the public elementary and middle schools in most of Berwyn.
Figure I live in Berwyn 4 years and have a kid. I could easily send him to Emerson/Heritage K-8. By the time he gets to high school, I will have saved 18 x 6,000 = 90,000 over Riverside in property taxes alone. I've also saved in terms of mortgage interest on the approximate 100,000 + price difference between houses in the two communities.
I'm not dissing good schools and Morton West needs to improve for the community to ultimately prosper (or a good charter high school needs to open and there's been talk of this). Everyone knows this. But this is an important way to look at it.
What are home prices like in Skokie nowadays? With the Oakton St. station open on the yellow line, buying a home in the Oakton Park neighborhood may be worth looking into. You have the advantage of decent Niles Township High Schools.
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For better or worse the "thifty" heritage of Berwyn does mean...
