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Long-time lurker and first-time poster here. I have read every relevant message on this topic (thank you, Chet, Sodium, and everyone!) and am looking for additional, current opinions. We are a somewhat eccentric, liberal, but not too tree-huggy, academic family moving from New England to Evanston area next summer. We are a multi-ethnic, multi-racial, blended family that uses 3 languages at home. One job is in Evanston (NU), the other in Chicago. We have two pre-school age kids. We have arranged to rent the first year, on flexible terms, and seek to buy in Evanston or east/central Wilmette during that time. Looking for something in the 600-800,000 range but could go up, especially if we are going with the public elementary school route. I would love a walking commute or a very easy public transit commute to NU. We need to be close to the Metra. We are wondering about the schools listed below, their early math education as well as their feel. All these progressive education ideas quite prevalent in IL seem lovely, but I would like some traditional instruction as a core for math especially. Any general and math-specific feedback on the set of schools listed below is very much appreciated, and I include some of our initial impressions. We care very much about math/science education, music, languages, physical activity. We can supplement at home and beyond, but much of the boys’ free time will go towards developing their secondary languages, music and athletics, so we are really looking for a stellar base education, public or private. Since we are not at all religious, certain schools are likely out.
In Evanston:
Orrington – seems nice, will visit in the fall. High home prices, but fantastic commute. Might still end up in private schools later, so is it worth the price and taxes? How is their math?
Dewey – my colleagues who have kids there love it, but they are all TWI. Our boys are trilingual (not with Spanish) and the older one is already slightly language delayed, so I think TWI there is just not for us. How is their standard curriculum?
Roycemore – visited it already, seemed very nice but didn’t have the chance to dive into curriculum. We get a bit of a discount there so it won’t be quite as pricey. On one hand, individualized attention is great, but offerings seem somewhat narrow. Worth it?
Baker Demo – was undergoing major changes. How is the new NU affiliation changed things? I love the idea of daily PE for the boys and Latin early on. Latin is what got me into a top school, since my English was certainly not good enough for the requisite SAT scores back then. On the other hand the whole approach seems like having dessert for your meals. Every day. Does it work well?
Wilmette/Winnetka:
Central – would we fit in if we are a bit unusual (just as an example, our two boys have different racial make-up)? We can afford to live in the area but not in the fanciest of homes. How rigorous are the classes?
McKenzie – everyone seems happy with it and I look forward to the visit. Though we like the idea of living on the other side of the tracks to be closer to NU and Gilson, there is very much that is appealing about this district and we could possibly stretch the house dollar a bit further there. How do people feel about it relative to Central?
North Shore Country Day – this one is the one most like my own high-school in another state. Appealing, but I am not sure it is optimal to be a “lifer” there. We are definitely looking into some of their early age summer programs already.
Thank you for your feed-back. I feel already at home in the area thanks to the wealth of info on CD.
I don't have as many friends with elementary school aged kids as I once did but I do try and stay current with the issues of education so I will comment on that. There is currently a bit of "backlash" as Illinois is trying to hammer out details of how best to realign testing and curiculm from our weak one-off Praire State Assements to the more broadly norms Common Core.
Make no mistake, it is easy to get bogged down in the politics of this -- education unions have positions staked out, certain traditional political parties have their say, many folks that support things like home schooling and certain aspects of a particular kind of pseudo scientific world view have their targets too...
I'll be blunt, aligning yourself with those who advocate for "rigorous math" that eschews theoretical understanding and poo-poohs things like manipulatives is likely to find you standing alongside people that think dinosaurs are hoaxes and a supernatural engineer made apes from wholly different stuff than humans...
Fortunately there are not too many of these types in Wilmette or Evanston but to be safe I would be aware of these politic rifts.
Honestly Wilmette is a great town but for kids with educated parents shopping in the price range you've indicated Evanston is also a good choice. The differences that you've seen in public elementary schools between the two towns are mainly minor. At the high school level I know that New Trier does things rather differently than ETHS and I much prefer the approach of NT but there are those that are ok with / prefer ETHS approach to dealing with the range of learning issues they face. If you choose private schools everything I have seen suggests the differences are as much about the social environment for the families as any real educational differences, and let me be clear, that is a valid choice that vey family ought to make regardless of their income or background.
I'll be blunt, aligning yourself with those who advocate for "rigorous math" that eschews theoretical understanding and poo-poohs things like manipulatives is likely to find you standing alongside people that think dinosaurs are hoaxes and a supernatural engineer made apes from wholly different stuff than humans...
I'm surprised to see you advocating for non-rigorous math. My experience is that those who do not learn traditional math concepts also do not get any theoretical understanding. They just can't do any math.
I am for rigorous instruction in everything. And I am quite sure dinosaurs are real and that we evolved from some sort of lower mammal.
The opposite of math instruction based on deep understanding of the conceptual basis of mathematics learned in a way that incorporates knowledge of how students best construct knowledge is really better called "drill and kill math" but the political supporters have instead chosen the more marketable "rigorous math" moniker...
I'd suggest the resource illinoisloop.org for a district-by-district and some private school math curriculum information. This information changes frequently so I'd ask about planned changes in texts and approach as Illinois schools move to Core standards. Fuzzy math (especially the Everyday Math program) is endemic in Illinois and you are right to ask these questions now.
Why anyone would call the fundamental product of the University of Chicago School Mathematics Project other than excellent is incomprehensible -- UCSMP
The data on the website reference by "anana" appears rather less than current.
Last edited by chet everett; 08-26-2013 at 11:17 PM..
Both daughters have been exposed to Everyday (Fuzzy) Math. Both have struggled. Now both are working with math tutor and are doing excellent! Don't know if they would have needed tutoring with different curriculum...................
No offense, but I taught math to middle school / high school students and if the teacher is not particularly well prepared and /or the classroom is not geared toward kids doing things with the teacher in class that often does not happen with many "traditional" oriented classrooms it will be a struggle. (though in honesty the same is true for many other subjects / activities -- math is not fundamentally all that differen than learning a second language or how to play an instrument or how to use the advanced features of a camera or software package --and the "practice sessions" don't have to be a drudge: if you have a kid that plays baseball, hockey or any other sport that is rich with statistics it is a heckuva lot easier for them to get accustomed to some of the 'data driven' features of UCSMP than kids that are not into those things...)
It is my experience that students need tutors MUCH more frequently when they do "old fashioned" math for an extended period compared to using the mostly excellent resources that go along the UCSMP -- there are supplementary materials that some schools / libraries have for students to use on their own as well as some things specifically geared toward parents. My only criticsm is the "kit" as sold by the publisher is rather pricey, but still way cheaper than any decent tutor...
Why anyone would call the fundamental product of the University of Chicago School Mathematics Project other than excellent is incomprehensible -- UCSMP
The data on the website reference by "anana" appears rather less than current.
I love UCSMP, but.... it was developed for students at the UC lab school and really not for average kids.
When we tried to use it for high school kids who were performing at below average levels, it did not work well. I suspect that if the kids started with it early, it might work better. However, as a math teacher, I did find that kids still needed to learn some things by rote in order to have computation come more easily.
Having talked to Zal Usiskin who was involved in the program's development, I think there are some problems with giving kids calculators before they have any number sense. I think that is why it has been criticized as *fuzzy math* though I don't believe it is fuzzy in reality.
The whole motivation behind the UCSMP was ALWAYS about UPGRADING SCHOOL MATH FOR THE AVERAGE STUDENT! Seriously, that goes back to its FOUNDING in 1983!
The "rote memorization" that many incompetent teachers assign in widely accepted as being wholly unsuited to any sort of computation, just as memorizing "eso si que es" as "socks" does absolutely nothing to help you communicate in Spanish speaking countries.
If kids are not successful when plunked from a 'drill & kill" environment of instruction and expected to actually solve problems the first step is to diagnose the difficulty and in almost every case it is simple -- "teachers" that themselve have a poor ability to relate to using mathematics in any sort of real world context. Sadly there are folks teaching mathematics that cannot propely scale-up a recipe written to serve 8 people in a way that would serve twelve, cannot tell you if it is a better value to do a "buy 2 get 3 free" on tweleve packs of cola or get an 36 can Sam's Club pack, and then "rely on the answer guide" instead of relating how it is often FASTER to use ones estimation skills than to use either a calulator or "write out the problem"...
Sorry if I am being harsh, but I have seen LOTS of poorly trained teachers in a huge range of settings and the difficulties I am used to seeing almost always fall into that realm.
Sadly there are some places where one can earn a teaching certificate with a math endorsement and never "do" anything mathematical... For folks that never considering the value of statistics or calculus or geometry to be in charge of helping young people learn these subjects that is not uncommon. In places like France or even Thailand the folks that get selected to be teachers are often turning down jobs from mathematically intensive government offices... BIG DIFFERENCE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
I love UCSMP, but.... it was developed for students at the UC lab school and really not for average kids.
When we tried to use it for high school kids who were performing at below average levels, it did not work well. I suspect that if the kids started with it early, it might work better. However, as a math teacher, I did find that kids still needed to learn some things by rote in order to have computation come more easily.
Having talked to Zal Usiskin who was involved in the program's development, I think there are some problems with giving kids calculators before they have any number sense. I think that is why it has been criticized as *fuzzy math* though I don't believe it is fuzzy in reality.
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Absolutely f'ing backwards!!!!!!!
