Where to Purchase in Western Suburbs (Clarendon Hills, Willowbrook, Western Springs) (Naperville: for sale, real estate)

[hartrob]

Hello,
First apologies for this lengthy post. My husband and I are looking to buy a house in the western suburbs. My husband works in Oak Brook and will be driving to work each day. I work downtown and need metra access to get to work. We have two kids not yet in elementary school. Our top three priorities are: (1) short commute for my husband to Oak Brook (under 30 minutes driving) and metra access for me; (2) the best public schools we can afford; and (3) big enough house to stay put, if we want to, until kids graduate high school (ideally minimum of 2000 square feet). Our budget is $400K and no more than $10K in annual taxes.

Given the geographic limits we’ve put on our search, if budget was not a consideration, Hinsdale or the parts of Clarendon Hills that feed into D181 for middle/elementary and Hinsdale Central High would be the obvious choice. However, we are realistic and know that our budget is not going to buy much house in the parts of Hinsdale and Clarendon Hills zoned for D181 and Hinsdale Central High. So, we are looking for advice on what locations—within our geographic limits--will provide the best elementary, middle and high schools that our money ($400K and $10K or less in annual property taxes) can buy without completely sacrificing the size of the house.

One possibility we’ve identified is to buy a house in Clarendon Hills or Willowbrook that is zoned for Hinsdale Central High and D60 (maercker) elementary/middle schools. We realize the D60 schools are not of the same caliber of D181, but I would really appreciate some perspective on how they compare to D181 (I’ve looked at the Dept of Ed school data, but I’m hoping for some perspective from folks who have real world experience with the D60 schools). Based on my research, if we are going to buy a house zoned D60 and Hinsdale Central High, it seems like we’d be smarter to do it in Willowbrook than Clarendon Hills because the taxes are going to be lower in Willowbrook. Another possibility is to try to find a house in the very small area of Willowbrook that is zoned for District 62 (gower) where the homeowners can choose either Hinsdale Central or South High School. District 62 is better than district 60 but is not as good as D181 (based on the IL state dept of ed data). As with D60, we’d really appreciate any real world feedback about experiences with D62. Based on all my research, if we can find a house in the part of Willowbrook that is zoned for D62 and with the choice of Hinsdale Central or South High Schools, this seems like the best bang for our buck, i.e., our commuting needs are met; can get a relatively larger house with lower taxes and have relatively good elementary and middle schools and very good high school.

In addition to looking for feedback on the D60 and D62 schools, we’d also love feedback on other communities that might meet our 3 priorities. Our realtor has mentioned Elmhurst and Western Springs. I know Lyons and York High Schools are as good as Hinsdale Central (at least according to sources like USNews & World Reports). I don’t have a sense of how the different elementary/middle schools that service Western Springs or Elmhurst (e.g., D101 and D106 for western springs) compare to D181. If anyone has advice on specific part of Western Springs, Elmhurst or other communities that would provide a good tradeoff between schools (considering both pre-high school and high school), home prices/taxes and size of house at our price point, we’d love to have that feedback. We’d also love advice if you think there is a better combination of schools, home size, home price/taxes than the option we've identified of finding a house in Willowbrook zoned for D62 with choice of Hinsdale central or south high school.

Finally, while not a priority (unlike items (1) through (3) above), another plus factor for us would be some amount of economic diversity in the community where we purchase. Although we can’t afford it, we realize that Hinsdale would be almost uniformly very wealthy. For us, economic diversity would never be a deciding factor. Still, while not a priority (more a perk), it would be nice to be in a community that has its share of lawyers, doctors, senior corporate execs, investment bankers, and other super high wealth individuals but also has some nurses, teachers, and similar types of folks. Willowbrook would provide this diversity but we'd love to know if other communities under consideration would as well.

Thanks in advance for any advice/thoughts.

[chet everett]

Let me start by saying that your "fears" of towns with high average housing costs being "uniformly wealthy" are unfounded. I live in the area served by D181 schools, which cover Hinsdale as well as parts of Burr Ridge, Oak Brook and most of Clarendon Hills. I have neighbors that include nurses, teachers, technicians, artists and include a fairly wide range of ages / incomes. I know you stated that was not your priority but it is important to address.

Second I will tell you that you are correct that you will not get a HUGE house for <$400k in a top tier school district, but there are more than a dozen served by D181 schools, most of which have 3+ br and 2+ ba which are more than adequate for a family with two kids not yet in elementary school. Some of them are less 2000 sq ft, but those tend to be in pretty good location, and some that are over 2000 sq ft are in locations that have a few challenges. None of them have taxes of even $7000 , some are much less. A few are truly "move in ready" but most could use some updates. All would be literally less 15 minutes to ANY spot in Oak Brook as well as great access to BNSF stations so you BOTH would enjoy SUPER commute situations.

I agree with the most of the analysis you offered about Maerecker & Gower schools. I would caution that there are differences that are not reflected in just the state data about tests -- things like access to art, music, foreign language, and even anti-bullying / high order self directed learning are different in those districts. The other factor is that in those areas access to Metra is much more complicated.

When it comes to Western Springs the elementary & middle schools are very similar to D181. Access to Metra is very good from most parts of town. Unfortunately price is not much better than the areas served by D181 and taxes are unlikely to exceed %2 of true market value. Trade-offs? Well, LT is a very good school but it is different than HC -- becuase of the split campus configuration it is a different feel -- freshmen & sophs at the WS campus, JR & SR at Lagrange is a part of it, as is the wider area that district covers, and even decreased opportunity for sports participation given the higher total enrollment. The range of housing and incomes is a tough call -- the most costly houses are way way up there -- far over $2M, and the least costly are almost certainly more affordable than those in the area served by D181 BUT there are probably fewer rentals in town and frankly not even all that many folks with Asian heritage that do tend to fill some of the technician class jobs in D181 (as well as plenty medical professionals and higher level executives in those areas...).

Elmhurst is even harder to really pin down -- for starters there is currently an ABSOLUTE absence of any homes between $400k & $425k, which is a bit odd and it makes it totally impossible to make even a modestly discounted offer and come in under budget for homes that currently listed higher than budget. Secondly the taxes in Elmhurst are far wider than ranging that I feel good about -- quite a few homes carry tax bills of greater than 2.5% of market value, so that pushes your limit for that boundary too. Layout of Elmhurst is sort of weird for commuters to Oak Brook or even Metra -- lots of homes are not going to be any closer to train than being in even Willowbrook and relative amount of surface street travel to Rt 83 will impede some drive times too... Elementary and middle schools are generally doing quite well and have a history of having lots of nice offerings. That said although York is making strides to get back to the tier it was held, equal or above HC, it is not there academically and given the changes in so many factors from faculty composition to demographics to costs it may never really be a true peer.

Hope that helps fill out the picture. If you want any more details ask away.

[Lookout Kid]

Having just gone through an eight-month home search in many of the towns you considered, I can tell you that the $400k budget will be problematic. There may be some listings that look okay online in places like Clarendon Hills, Hinsdale, and Western Springs, but there will be likely surprises when you see them in person. I think most of the houses under $500k are, uh, challenging in any of those suburbs.

There are other options that feed in to Lyons Township High School that are slightly more affordable and have great elementary schools. For instance, parts of La Grange Park are in elementary district 102, which La Grange Park shares with the best elementary schools in La Grange (but La Grange Park is less expensive than La Grange). Both Ogden and Cossitt elementaries are on the academic honor roll. La Grange District 105 to the south of 47th Street has some great elementary school options, but the middle school is a little rough because of the grittier suburbs that feed in to it (Hodgkins and Countryside).

You might also consider opening up your search to Downers Grove and Glen Ellyn. I live in the latter, and just today drove to Oak Brook for a meeting in less than 20 minutes during the morning rush. Not bad at all! Southern Glen Ellyn has some sub $400k homes that are quite spacious, and some of the schools are great. D41 to the north is more expensive for the most part, but if you can squeeze in to a bunaglow or smaller house, there may be options there as well. North Downers Grove doesn't have much that's sub $400k, and Downers Grove South is a stop down in terms of the high school, but it seems like an easier home search than anything in D181 at your budget.

Anything close to I-88 to the west of Oak Brook will be a pretty quick drive for your husband if you stay east of Naperville. It's the train commute that gets kind of long to downtown. Downers is unique in that the express trains from the Main Street station are only 27 minutes during rush periods. Glen Ellyn has one morning train that is 36 minutes, but most are 39-41 minutes (the Union Pacific West line is a bit slower than the Burlington Northern Santa Fe line). Naperville's downtown station is 35 minutes via the BNSF.

[chet everett]

I can't argue with LK, he has recently (and successfully...) been through the same process so he knows his stuff (might add he got a few pointers here too )

Believe me when I say most homes sub $400k in desirable areas will need some updating I am not sugar coating anything -- many years ago when I bought my first house in the western suburbs (and my budget was way way below what things are today ...) the amount of TLC needed was pretty signficant -- fortunately it was a solid brick-on-block house that had good layout so when I upgraded the electric, water, put on a new roof (and whole bunch more back when my FIL was still alive and I was just learning what he and I could tackle and what needed to be hired out...) I more than got my money back!

That is still the case only now but there are lots less homeowners with the both the downpayment for getting into something north of $300k and the time / skills to climb a ladder / work a soldering torch. And those WWII era homes probably have at least a couple more decades of either defered maintenance or crummy attempts at remuddling -- that you gotta see past that fixable problems, of course if sellers don't have it priced right it might not make sense.

He is also right that if you can find something in DG that super fast BNSF trains are a big plus, all the towns on the BNSF benefit from the track layout and density of ridership. DG North has many of better qualities of York or LT in a size that is closer to HC. Nice mix of income ranges. Good option.

Fastest trains from LaGrange's eastern most stop are under 20 minutes, and drive to Oak Brook from pretty much anywhere in Lagrange is sub 30 minutes. School advice some LK is spot on. I know he and others really really like its downtown too -- one of the nicest mixes of shops / dining / casual spots of a friendly refreshment. Really good cross section of incomes. Certainly worth exploring.

LK nails the facts on Glen Ellyn too -- top end is very pricey, but there are some homes that can fit under $400k, taxes can be as high or higher than Elmhurst. Glenbard West is the "prestige" option among that multi-school district. Performance numbers are solid.

[Lookout Kid]

A couple of Chet's comments spurred some thoughts:

Originally Posted by chet everett

Fastest trains from LaGrange's eastern most stop are under 20 minutes, and drive to Oak Brook from pretty much anywhere in Lagrange is sub 30 minutes.

I realized one of my comments could be misleading. When I said Downers Grove Main Street was unique for the 27 minute express train, I meant that it was unique for being so far from the Loop. As Chet mentioned, you can certainly get a shorter train commute by sticking closer to the city in a place like La Grange or Hinsdale. Also, my comment about the commute being easier from the West also needs a qualifier: The interstates tend to move faster once you get outside of 294/290, so you can drive more miles faster from further west. But obviously, if you are just really close to Oak Brook it will also be a short drive, and La Grange/Western Springs/Hinsdale/Clarendon Hills will all be very short drives, even with heavy traffic.

Originally Posted by chet everett

Really good cross section of incomes. Certainly worth exploring.

Re: the income variations in La Grange: Most of the housing that feeds in to D102 is very expensive, whether in La Grange or La Grange Park, so the income variations that you see in southern La Grange aren't apparent there (47th street is the school district divider for the most part, and is also where the housing changes from mostly 1890s-1920s to the north to 1950s suburbia to the south). There is a strip of La Grange on the far eastern edge that is perhaps a little sketchy, but you're talking about a few blocks, and the crime isn't much of an issue for 99% of La Grange residents. La Grange's crime rates are surprisingly low for being so close to the city, and compare well to any suburb--even on the fringe of exurbia. It used to be a more middle-income community, but within the last couple of decades has really moved in to the prestigious suburb category. A sub $400k will be a real challenge there too, but less so than in Hinsdale or Western Springs.

[hartrob]

Hello Lookout Kid and Chet, you have both provided very helpful replies which triggered more questions for us. I don't think we want to go further west (i.e., Downers Grove or Glen Ellyn). That increases my commute time to downtown (I realize by just a few minutes) and I'm always racing to maximize my time with kids in the weekday mornings and evenings as it is. We also realize that Willowbrook does not have a Metra station, but I've verified that I can park at the Westmont or Clarendon Hills lots without being a resident of either town. It doesn't appear that the drive from north Willowbrook to these stations would exceed 10 minutes (but I'd also have walking time from the parking lot to the train platform).

With respect to D60 and D62 elementary/middle schools, recognizing that are not as good as D181 and certain Western Springs and LaGrange schools, I guess the question is how much lesser they are? Are we talking about splitting hairs or something more meaningful? If our kids went to D60 or D62 and were zoned to go to Hinsdale Central, would they be prepared for the academic rigor of Hinsdale Central or would they be ill-prepared as compared to peers who had gone to D181? Would their pre-high school preparation allow them go be good candidates to be tracked into the honors/AP classes and other college prep? (My husband and I both have graduate degrees and highly value education so you can assume that we would be very involved parents with homework, etc. as our kids move through elementary, middle and high school).

Finally, as between holding out for a house in Clarendon Hills zoned D181 with possibly less than 2000 sq. ft versus buying in Willowbrook zoned for D62 and choice of Hinsdale Central or South and probably getting a bigger house for the money, what would you recommend?

Thanks again!

[chet everett]

You are asking the right kind of questions and they are not easy to answer. I know quite a few parents that have been happy with the education their kids received at the D60 or D62 schools but I also know more a few parents from those districts as well as D53 (which I generally feel is excellent, though homes under $400k are so scarce as to be almost like unicorns...) and even D181 who feel like things were not challenging enough -- you will ALWAYS encounter some parents like that ANYWHERE, even at pricey private schools. As a practical matter I do think that the emphasis on not just the standard "stuff that is tested for" but art, music, and other more enriching offerings is as good in D181 schools as you will find in any public school in Illinois. The "step down" in other districts is not falling off a cliff nor is it so slight that you'd need to split hairs to find it... I have no doubt that there are many good parents that have a balanced set of priorities that can raise wonderful kids in Willowbrook or other areas. Kids that have great natural talent / bright, involved parents / good learning environment will do well in almost any circumstance -- ultimately the "general trend" is what effects real estate and the "fat part of the bell curve" much more so than the kids at the skinny leading edge of the curve...

To address something that often does come up: "train parking" is a challenge even for folks that want a monthly permit and live inside CH or Westmont -- folks want to be in the relatively small lots nearest the station, residents get priority and the lots further way can add so much to your walk that some folks do prefer to rely on a Pace bus which is much cheaper. The ideal situation is to be close enough to walk / ride a bike and people definately are willing to pay a premium for homes that allow them to do so.

The last issue, of what trade-offs make sense is also a bit of a tricky question. If you are the kind of person that wants / likes the total setting of what it means to have a home where kids can walk to the ice cream shop, elementary / middle schools, park district, ball fields, ponds etc then you will almost certainly sacrifice things like a bigger house AND I have to say that I have known many families that started out in a very modest house "in town" and with some basic updates increased their equity to the point where they could, in a relatively short time, afford to move up OR use that equity to signficantly upgrade / expand a modest home to the point where it was a superior situation than had they went with the home in an area where price appreciation has not been as swift... Of course that assumes that you are not "last one to the game" (which I frankly don't think will be the case, but one guarantee that sort of thing...), AND you have to be pretty savvy with what you buy / what is possible down the road as well as having the skills to make smart upgrades in a way that makes long term sense AND you have to really keep the "total life timeline" in mind -- I know more than a few folks that have done these sorts of things incrementally. If you get a house that is a "great starter" in a desirable neighborhood and then make it into more of a "family home" or sell / move up the kids can stay in the same area, have the same friends, reap the maximum advantages with your having the least outlay for housing...

[Lookout Kid]

We insisted on "walk to the train" when we bought our house, and didn't even consider "drive to the train" after hearing the horror stories about lots filling up before 7:00 a.m. and seven year waiting lists for resident permits. But if you can leave early in the morning for work, that may be an option.

[ritakuz]

The LaGrange school district is excellent. If you can't afford a home in LaGrange, there are some large homes in neighboring Brookfield that are for sale that are in the LaGrange school district. There are 2 homes for sale now in the $400,000 range that are quite large that are in the LG school district. The area is comprised of professionals, police and firefighters.

[mikeg533]

I'm interested in learning the outcome of having posted this thread. Have you finally settled in to a home? If so, where and what factors were ultimately involved in your decision? Any details would be appreciated as I am now beginning my journey to homeownership in one of these suburbs as well.