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Wisconsin can thank Governor Scott Walker for destroying its chances of getting a nice revamp of the Hiawatha along with enhanced service to Minneapolis via Madison. Wisconsin literally had federal dollars on the plate ready to be used, but Walker rejected the money due to his political agenda. Later when he turned around and begged for Hiawatha-specific upgrade money (just for Chicago to Milwaukee), the federal government rejected his request.
On the flipside, Michigan has been quite cooperative with the Federal government on this issue. They have enthusiastically taken the funding, and the service is improving. The funny thing is, Michigan's governor is also a Republican (Rick Snyder), but much more progressive when it comes to this particular issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE-Ed
It would be nice to see the Hiawatha line improved and upgraded to a high speed line. Sadly this isn't going to happen any time soon. This line is funded by the Wisconsin Dept. of Transportation & the Illinois Dept. of Transportation. Right now, the political climate is such that both states will not do this unless they get funding from the Feds to make this happen. With the deficit now in the $ 17 trillion dollar range, I doubt this will happen. Its unfortunate because this lines ridership has increased substantially in the past couple of years. There are people in Milwaukee that ride this line daily to work down in Chicago and the weekends get very busy on this line.
Wisconsin can thank Governor Scott Walker for destroying its chances of getting a nice revamp of the Hiawatha along with enhanced service to Minneapolis via Madison. Wisconsin literally had federal dollars on the plate ready to be used, but Walker rejected the money due to his political agenda. Later when he turned around and begged for Hiawatha-specific upgrade money (just for Chicago to Milwaukee), the federal government rejected his request.
So, he was short sighted and decided follow his political agenda in the first place to attract votes instead of using common sense. If he knew it was for the best interest of the state, isn't it common sense for the governor to get ahead and use the federal money to complete Railway Upgrades. Votes will pour in automatically if you contribute towards providing essential services and making life easier for the state residents. I am not taking sides in politics here, just providing you with an unbiased view of what might have happened.
Chicago just completed a $75M total revamp for 5+ miles of Red Line and a number of stations. The Red Line carries an average of 400,000 riders M-F. How does that number stack up to riders from Milwaukee to Chicago M-F? ?
It is all about NUMB3RS. According to Amtrak they have 7 daily round-trips M-Sat and 6 on Sunday between the Milwaukee airport and Union Station. The 86 mile average time is 90 minutes.
The second largest Illinois ridership, outside of Chicago, is at Normal.
If you're just looking to get speeds up to 115mph, you don't need to electrify to achieve that. With the right gearing, modern diesel-electric locomotives are perfectly capable of achieving those speeds. On some lines Amtrak is already doing those speeds with diesel locomotives.
It would still require track and switch upgrades though. And then there's the question of whether the tracks between CHI and MKE are owned by Amtrak or leased from freight lines. If the latter, then it may not be possible to ramp up speeds anyway if they're just going to end up driving right up the arse of a freight train trundling along at conventional speeds.
The tracks are owned by Metra south of Abbott Park. By CP rail north of there I am pretty sure. If money exists to upgrade it, I would suggest flyover bridges at Mayfair and Rondout.
If you're just looking to get speeds up to 115mph, you don't need to electrify to achieve that. With the right gearing, modern diesel-electric locomotives are perfectly capable of achieving those speeds. On some lines Amtrak is already doing those speeds with diesel locomotives.
It would still require track and switch upgrades though. And then there's the question of whether the tracks between CHI and MKE are owned by Amtrak or leased from freight lines. If the latter, then it may not be possible to ramp up speeds anyway if they're just going to end up driving right up the arse of a freight train trundling along at conventional speeds.
That is why I am considering purchasing a high speed DMU set for Amtrak rail service along this corridor. Look up British Rail Class 221. You will know what I mean.
So, he was short sighted and decided follow his political agenda in the first place to attract votes instead of using common sense. If he knew it was for the best interest of the state, isn't it common sense for the governor to get ahead and use the federal money to complete Railway Upgrades. Votes will pour in automatically if you contribute towards providing essential services and making life easier for the state residents. I am not taking sides in politics here, just providing you with an unbiased view of what might have happened.
IMO, there were some real problems with that proposal. Walker ran on the issue. I won't rehash everything (you can read it all there), but the crux of the issue for many was that there were never any answers on what the O&M costs of the line would be and, since the vast majority of the proposed line ran through Wisconsin, state taxpayers likely would have been on the hook for most of it indefinitely. When it was being debated in 2009 and 2010, Wisconsin was running a $1.6 billion annual deficit. It also was not really high speed. I believe it topped out at 110 MPH and that wouldn't have been until 2020 or later. Even at that, with the proposed route it would have been faster to drive. I'm not necessarily opposed to HSR, but this was a poor plan.
There is no need for tilting / canting rolling stock when the rail itself is essentially a straight shot from CHI to MKE.
The OP shows all the non-productive tendancies of folks that campaign for trains without understanding why the current situations exist and what steps are likely to change the status of rail transit in the US. Things like the fact that Amtrak improvements from Chicago to Milwaukee would adversely impact the entrenched status of air carriers, necessitiate hugely costly changes to at-grade crossings, intefer with the priority given freight transportation, negatively impact residential noise levels and rearrange long established political alignmments...
Fact is there is rarely any true business need to get between MKE & CHI that would benefit from speeds greater than what is possible in a personal vehicle, the same is largely true for other "intraregional" proposals to places like Milwaukee, Madison, Peoria, Detroit, St. Louis, and other darlings of the "trains for all" crowd. The ultimate value of travel FASTER than current air travel as proposed in schemes like Elon Musk's "Hyperloop" would likely be a different game changer as it would enable same day travel between places like Detroit & Minneapolis... Of course even that is not a "slam dunk" that such things will be embraced -- I know folks that specifically plan travel to such places to coincide with sporting events and such -- speeding up travel might actually HURT the spillover of business travelers helping the "tourism revenues" that are an increasingly important part of City budgets...
As usual chet I see you pooh-poohing the entire idea (and anything having to do with trains). IMO, this route should be more frequent than it is because the distance from Milwaukee to Chicago is so short and it's a solid downtown to downtown route. Folks up there have definitely expressed an interest in having more late night train options to return from Chicago. And also you mention improvements in the train "adversely [impacting] the entrenched status of air carriers". You say this as if it is a bad thing. This is a GREAT thing for just about everyone except the airlines. Heck, even the airlines would probably rather focus on actual long-distance routes and not little 90 mile puddle jumps on a dinky turboprop plane. If you want to see how great the disparity is between our Chicago to Milwaukee train and what New Yorkers and Philly folks get between NYC & Philly (approximately the same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee), check this out. Tomorrow (Tuesday), there will be 47 trains going from Philly to NYC, and 48 trains making the NYC to Philly trip. Here in Chicago, we'll have a measly 7 trains going up to Milwaukee, and folks up in Milwaukee will also have a very sorry 7 trains to choose from. And zero late night options. Rail is a joke here compared to NYC. Understandably, Chicago is smaller than NYC and Milwaukee is smaller than Philadelphia, but still. Even the smaller cities in the East Coast such as Baltimore, Wilmington (Delaware), Providence (Rhode Island), etc. have it better than us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
There is no need for tilting / canting rolling stock when the rail itself is essentially a straight shot from CHI to MKE.
The OP shows all the non-productive tendancies of folks that campaign for trains without understanding why the current situations exist and what steps are likely to change the status of rail transit in the US. Things like the fact that Amtrak improvements from Chicago to Milwaukee would adversely impact the entrenched status of air carriers, necessitiate hugely costly changes to at-grade crossings, intefer with the priority given freight transportation, negatively impact residential noise levels and rearrange long established political alignmments...
Fact is there is rarely any true business need to get between MKE & CHI that would benefit from speeds greater than what is possible in a personal vehicle, the same is largely true for other "intraregional" proposals to places like Milwaukee, Madison, Peoria, Detroit, St. Louis, and other darlings of the "trains for all" crowd. The ultimate value of travel FASTER than current air travel as proposed in schemes like Elon Musk's "Hyperloop" would likely be a different game changer as it would enable same day travel between places like Detroit & Minneapolis... Of course even that is not a "slam dunk" that such things will be embraced -- I know folks that specifically plan travel to such places to coincide with sporting events and such -- speeding up travel might actually HURT the spillover of business travelers helping the "tourism revenues" that are an increasingly important part of City budgets...
As usual chet I see you pooh-poohing the entire idea (and anything having to do with trains). IMO, this route should be more frequent than it is because the distance from Milwaukee to Chicago is so short and it's a solid downtown to downtown route. Folks up there have definitely expressed an interest in having more late night train options to return from Chicago. And also you mention improvements in the train "adversely [impacting] the entrenched status of air carriers". You say this as if it is a bad thing. This is a GREAT thing for just about everyone except the airlines. Heck, even the airlines would probably rather focus on actual long-distance routes and not little 90 mile puddle jumps on a dinky turboprop plane. If you want to see how great the disparity is between our Chicago to Milwaukee train and what New Yorkers and Philly folks get between NYC & Philly (approximately the same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee), check this out. Tomorrow (Tuesday), there will be 47 trains going from Philly to NYC, and 48 trains making the NYC to Philly trip. Here in Chicago, we'll have a measly 7 trains going up to Milwaukee, and folks up in Milwaukee will also have a very sorry 7 trains to choose from. And zero late night options. Rail is a joke here compared to NYC. Understandably, Chicago is smaller than NYC and Milwaukee is smaller than Philadelphia, but still. Even the smaller cities in the East Coast such as Baltimore, Wilmington (Delaware), Providence (Rhode Island), etc. have it better than us.
My town of 56,000 is scheduled to get NEC Amtrak service in 2 years with trains to Philly, Harrisburg, NYC, and Albany. Amtrak trains operate every 30-40 minutes along the NEC 24 hours a day, and we are likely to have bi-hourly Amtrak service. Chicago surely deserves 12 trains a day to Milwaukee, and a daily night train to Minneapolis.
People that don't use it need not use it. I know several people who would be content with proper rail service rather than spending several hours on the Tri state tollway and I 94. This part of I 94 sees very heavy traffic, and getting stuck in traffic WHILE PAYING FOR TOLL & GAS is neither economical nor time saving.
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