Question about finishing basements and permits

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by RJA29

I know I'm drudging up an old thread here, but does anyone have experience with permits in Downers Grove? I will be doing some minor work (including a bathroom remodel) and want to know how long it might take to get permits, how crazy the inspectors might be, etc.

Thank you!

I owned a rental property in DG over a decade ago and I found their permitting / inspection process to be very professional, thorough and not intrusive. The key is to supply ALL the documents before you start ANY of the work. That allows the Bldg Dpt to confirm any previous permits and then request any evidence that the work you plan on doing won't require variances. That generally is explained by the online info -- Residential - Remodeling | Permits | Village of Downers Grove Turn around is dependant on workload, things do get busy right about NOW, so get your ducks in a row ASAP.

If you do need a variance there will be a hearing scheduled and that could delay the project by several weeks, though generally things like a bathroom remodel in a single family home will not trigger such a thing. Variances often are required for things like multi-family housing and changing the exterior configuration. Downers Grove has mostly nice looking neighborhoods and that is not an accident -- folks that try to do work without a permit get shut down / fined.

In any of the well run towns the folks doing the actual inspections tend to have actual experience in the building trades and/or firefighters. They don't want to be back to the site when it is some deathtrap, nor do they want some bozo cross connecting potable water to sewer lines or other such nightmares.

So long as whoever does the work can READ the current national codes / standards there are rarely problems. I have heard that some folks trying to fit things like sybaritic multi-person showers into older bungalows have gotten blow back about distances to toilet / electric / size of shower curb, but that is not unique to DG, it is something that any folks who try to go from "dream houses" of 5000 sq ft in magazines run into when trying to scale down to a home that is less than half that size...

[RJA29]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I owned a rental property in DG over a decade ago and I found their permitting / inspection process to be very professional, thorough and not intrusive. The key is to supply ALL the documents before you start ANY of the work. That allows the Bldg Dpt to confirm any previous permits and then request any evidence that the work you plan on doing won't require variances. That generally is explained by the online info -- Residential - Remodeling | Permits | Village of Downers Grove Turn around is dependant on workload, things do get busy right about NOW, so get your ducks in a row ASAP.

If you do need a variance there will be a hearing scheduled and that could delay the project by several weeks, though generally things like a bathroom remodel in a single family home will not trigger such a thing. Variances often are required for things like multi-family housing and changing the exterior configuration. Downers Grove has mostly nice looking neighborhoods and that is not an accident -- folks that try to do work without a permit get shut down / fined.

In any of the well run towns the folks doing the actual inspections tend to have actual experience in the building trades and/or firefighters. They don't want to be back to the site when it is some deathtrap, nor do they want some bozo cross connecting potable water to sewer lines or other such nightmares.

So long as whoever does the work can READ the current national codes / standards there are rarely problems. I have heard that some folks trying to fit things like sybaritic multi-person showers into older bungalows have gotten blow back about distances to toilet / electric / size of shower curb, but that is not unique to DG, it is something that any folks who try to go from "dream houses" of 5000 sq ft in magazines run into when trying to scale down to a home that is less than half that size...

Thank you, Chet.

I read over all the Muni codes and it's pretty straightforward that the work I'm doing (bathroom remodel and minor kitchen work) can be done by a contractor without stamped drawings. That was confirmed when I called the permitting office and the project manager for my area noted that everything would be pretty basic, but that I'd need to do GFCI upgrades and hardwired smoke detectors (if it is possible w/out removing walls or ceilings).

No pre-inspection, just a rough inspection and final inspection at finish.

I'll update the process and timelines for whomever might be interested as things go along.

[wjj]

Originally Posted by RJA29

Thank you, Chet.

I read over all the Muni codes and it's pretty straightforward that the work I'm doing (bathroom remodel and minor kitchen work) can be done by a contractor without stamped drawings. That was confirmed when I called the permitting office and the project manager for my area noted that everything would be pretty basic, but that I'd need to do GFCI upgrades and hardwired smoke detectors (if it is possible w/out removing walls or ceilings).

No pre-inspection, just a rough inspection and final inspection at finish.

I'll update the process and timelines for whomever might be interested as things go along.

Sounds reasonable. But some places are not so reasonable. For instance, in Buffalo Grove, EVERY contractor or sub needs to be licensed by the village before they will issue a permit. So if using out of village tradespaeople ( which is normally the case) each would have to pay $100 and pass the village licensing standards before a permit will be issued. Even when everything in the application as far as code is perfect. The village will not issue a permit until all contractors are licensed by the village regardless of other licenses they hold. So for a typical kitchen upgrade you have the contractor, flooring guy, drywall guy, electrician, plumber, painter, cabinet installers, granite guy, etc. all who have to pull a village license. Most refuse. Those that agree pass the cost on to the customer. And they wonder why people do not pull permits except when doing major additions.

[RJA29]

Originally Posted by wjj

Sounds reasonable. But some places are not so reasonable. For instance, in Buffalo Grove, EVERY contractor or sub needs to be licensed by the village before they will issue a permit. So if using out of village tradespaeople ( which is normally the case) each would have to pay $100 and pass the village licensing standards before a permit will be issued. Even when everything in the application as far as code is perfect. The village will not issue a permit until all contractors are licensed by the village regardless of other licenses they hold. So for a typical kitchen upgrade you have the contractor, flooring guy, drywall guy, electrician, plumber, painter, cabinet installers, granite guy, etc. all who have to pull a village license. Most refuse. Those that agree pass the cost on to the customer. And they wonder why people do not pull permits except when doing major additions.

Sounds terrible. Downers Grove doesn't license Electricians anymore, so I won't run into that problem.

One thing I wonder is that there are items in the Municipality Code that would allow me not to do hardwired detectors, for example. Do I ask about these upfront or later on?

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by RJA29

... are items in the Municipality Code that would allow me not to do hardwired detectors, for example. Do I ask about these upfront or later on?

The various national associations strongly favor hardwired smoke detectors. https://www.iafc.org/ Their influence is so strong they've forced firms like Nest to offer hardwired units, which then use that full time power for more frequent connections to the web, an improvement IMHO -- https://nest.com/support/article/Wha...rotect-Battery

[Lookout Kid]

I'm about to do the same thing in Glen Ellyn, and it will be interesting to see which aspects of the code are strictly enforced in my very old house. I read through the code and am seeing a few potential friction points:

1. Ventilation requirements, since I have radiators in my house and my high velocity AC ducts only run occasionally in the summer.
2. Ceiling height, since I would like to level my floor and have a few areas below the required 7'-0" threshold. I've heard variances are often granted for this in certain localized areas.
3. Stair width, since I can't really make my opening any larger.

[RJA29]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I'm about to do the same thing in Glen Ellyn, and it will be interesting to see which aspects of the code are strictly enforced in my very old house. I read through the code and am seeing a few potential friction points:

1. Ventilation requirements, since I have radiators in my house and my high velocity AC ducts only run occasionally in the summer.
2. Ceiling height, since I would like to level my floor and have a few areas below the required 7'-0" threshold. I've heard variances are often granted for this in certain localized areas.
3. Stair width, since I can't really make my opening any larger.

LK - it will be interesting to compare notes afterwards.

The 7 foot height in laundry spaces interests me, as my laundry is downstairs, and the height of the ceiling is not 7 feet. However, what can the inspector do, besides tell me not to do laundry downstairs? This seems like it would be nearly impossible to enforce.

I'm also somewhat worried about this, as the unfinished basement where the HVAC is does not always have the proper 6'8" clearance. I don't think the inspector will need to go into the basement, as no work is being done there, so I'm hopeful it's not an issue. Changing HVAC ducting down there could be rough!

However, if you are changing floor structures, then it might be something worth considering -- the 7 foot rule can also be varied if it's in a room for sleeping and there is a sloped roof.

I'm hoping that hard-wired smoke detectors might be unecessary due to this provision:


Installation, alteration, or repairs of plumbing or mechanical systems that do not result in the removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, are exempt from the requirements of this section.

However, later, the code states:

Smoke alarms shall be interconnected in such a manner that the activation on one alarm will activate all of the alarms in the individual unit.

It really does seem that the on-site inspector during rough inspection will have a wide breadth to make these determinations.