Question about finishing basements and permits (Chicago, Des Plaines: house, crawl space, buyers)

[ngrome]

I had a nice chat with my town building inspector (not being sarastic, he was actually a nice guy and very helpful) as I was considering finishing my basement but beforehand I had to discuss with him what I was considering doing. After a lengthy conversation, I had to do so many things to get that space up to code as the previous owner started the work but didn't do things up to code like used the wrong wood for framing, etc., and now we have to consider things like digging the window wells larger so it can serve as an appropriate emergency escape.

So now I'm not sure I want to go through the trouble of fully finishing it because of the costs involved to get it up to code. With that kind of money I can put into other areas of the house that need work.

But I was wondering, what if I just rip out the things that aren't to code and just paint the concrete walls and flooring just to make the area brighter, and possibly paint the unfinished ceiling as well (with all the ducting, etc.) to give it that "loft" look that seems to be pretty popular these days? Has anyone reading this post done this?

I just want the basement brighter and not look as dark and intimidating. It's still going to be primarily a storage area as I won't put anymore drywall, etc., given what I discussed above, and it won't be habitable full-time, i.e., there's not going to be any beds or any bedroom or bathroom made down there, though I may still slap a TV and couple chairs down there if the family can't agree on watching the same thing on TV. So you think just painting the basement concrete walls and floor will require a permit? I know painting walls in the house doesn't require a permit in general, but this is the basement, don't know if there's separate rules for that space. I wouldn't think so, but I wanted to get people's opinions in this Chicago suburb forum who may have had similar experience or the same situation. Thanks in advance.

[ToriaT]

Yes I have done almost exactly that. I did not want a dark dingy cement basement but I did not want the expense of doing a regular finished basement. I grew up with one and it was really not used that often. Possibly if you have quite a number of kids it would but we never did. So what I did was first have a painter come and paint the cement walls white with something called basement paint. I don't know if its really called that but its paint that is different than something that you would put on your upstairs walls. Then I had someone put up a minimal amount of dry wall to form a furnace/laundry/storage room on one side of the basement that also contains the crawl space. Then I had them box in the stairs to form walls on the side of the stairs and a closet underneath so stuff could be stored there. I painted the drywall walls (minimal drywall) myself and hung some elfa shelving for my books and cookbooks so they would not be near the ground but on the wall. I also had ordinary tile put on the floor so it can be easy to mop. I have put another black metal shelving unit down there and a metal futon. Any furniture down there had to be metal, or with metal legs. I bought a polypropylene (oelfin) area rug that's the only kind that is safe in a basement from water damage. And sure enough during some big storms I have had some small amounts of water in my basement but because I was smart about how I did it, no real damage occurred. I had carpet cleaners take the rug out to be cleaned and all furniture could be wiped down and the floor mopped. I also had my basement stairs carpeted with dark brown indoor outdoor carpeting and its worked well. Even if the drywall got wrecked there is not that much of it so it would not be that costly to replace. I have a futon with metal frame down there and a metal entertainment unit with a TV, etc. so it can double as a rec room if I wanted. I can put exercise exquipment down there. I never did finish the ceiling or even paint it but I was thinking of hiring someone to come and spray it white at one time but I didn't. As it turns out I spend little time there but I am glad that at least if I have to go down its bright and welcoming rather than dingy gray concrete. P.S. Maybe it was ignorance but I did not get a permit at the time. I still have the small basement windows and I do not intend to rip them out and put the bigger ones in.

[Lookout Kid]

You don't need a permit to paint. You should be fine.

[chet everett]

The reason that towns require permits for certain kinds of interior modifications is for ensuring thing like safety of the shared water / sewer systems, fire safety, and structural integrity. Painting will not alter any of this things and therefore it is not subject to permits in any normal town.

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by ngrome

I had a nice chat with my town building inspector (not being sarastic, he was actually a nice guy and very helpful) as I was considering finishing my basement but beforehand I had to discuss with him what I was considering doing. After a lengthy conversation, I had to do so many things to get that space up to code as the previous owner started the work but didn't do things up to code like used the wrong wood for framing, etc., and now we have to consider things like digging the window wells larger so it can serve as an appropriate emergency escape.

So now I'm not sure I want to go through the trouble of fully finishing it because of the costs involved to get it up to code. With that kind of money I can put into other areas of the house that need work.

But I was wondering, what if I just rip out the things that aren't to code and just paint the concrete walls and flooring just to make the area brighter, and possibly paint the unfinished ceiling as well (with all the ducting, etc.) to give it that "loft" look that seems to be pretty popular these days? Has anyone reading this post done this?

I just want the basement brighter and not look as dark and intimidating. It's still going to be primarily a storage area as I won't put anymore drywall, etc., given what I discussed above, and it won't be habitable full-time, i.e., there's not going to be any beds or any bedroom or bathroom made down there, though I may still slap a TV and couple chairs down there if the family can't agree on watching the same thing on TV. So you think just painting the basement concrete walls and floor will require a permit? I know painting walls in the house doesn't require a permit in general, but this is the basement, don't know if there's separate rules for that space. I wouldn't think so, but I wanted to get people's opinions in this Chicago suburb forum who may have had similar experience or the same situation. Thanks in advance.

Code chode, it's none of the cities business what you do with your basement. The idea is protecting you right, probably most likely for people sleeping in the basement they want window escapes. A fire could break out just as easily if your sitting on the couch watching tv in a nice dry walled basement or if your storing stuff in a concrete basement. It's nothing but semantics. Don't bother with code just dont get a big dumpster that's going to draw attention and do what you want to do. You made your first mistake even asking for persmission.

[TheGuy101]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

Code chode, it's none of the cities business what you do with your basement. The idea is protecting you right, probably most likely for people sleeping in the basement they want window escapes. A fire could break out just as easily if your sitting on the couch watching tv in a nice dry walled basement or if your storing stuff in a concrete basement. It's nothing but semantics. Don't bother with code just dont get a big dumpster that's going to draw attention and do what you want to do. You made your first mistake even asking for persmission.

I agree with this in theory, but you will have issues with selling the home if big projects like this don't have permits on file, and are done to code. Most home inspectors will sniff this out pretty quickly, and it will lower the value of the home, and scare buyers away.

Going the "paint it all" route is the safest and cheapest idea.

Just food for thought.

[Austin023]

These days cement board tends to be used in basement remodeling, at least on the lower half of the walls, if not entirely due to the potential for moisture. Also certain precautions might need to be taken to deal with water and moisture, mold, etc. which can pose a health hazard, so that's a reason why permits are usually needed.

Growing up we had a big finished off rec room in our basement (sheetrock walls and ceiling) which was ruined when it flooded one spring. A 'contractor' was hired to gut it down to the studs and refinish the room, which he did with that cheap paneling that was popular years ago to save some money (this was more than 20 years ago now btw). After about 4 years we noted the panel walls began to buckle seriously and were coming loose in places, so it was decided to redo it again with sheetrock or similar...when the paneling was removed after 4 years it was found to basically rotten on the lower ends and some mold was growing too---it was particleboard based and obviously was never suited for use in a sometimes damp basement. That was several hundred dollars down the drain so to speak after only four years.
The next time around it was done properly, with all permits with cement board, etc. and was still good ten years later.

[demouser]

You can paint it to brighten it up, but when you sell your house, it's still considered an unfinished basement.

The real purpose to an egress window is so a fully equipped fireman can come in and rescue someone trapped in the basement. Not sure when it became code, probably in the 80's.

Permit issues vary greatly by town. Our town does not have a building inspector (they hire an independent one as needed) , while the next town over has 5 full-time inspectors. In the town with 5 inspectors, if they see ANY sign of construction, an inspector will be knocking on your door.

I don't know of a single DIY'er around here who has gotten a permit for interior work. If you hire a contractor for major renovation, then you might want to. The reason people avoid permits is the subsequent increase in property taxes for any improvements you do. I know people who got a permit, built a $2000 deck, and saw their property taxes go up by $200/year. That's a 100% tax over 10 years!! And yes, the tax collector went into their back yard while they were at work and measured the size of their deck!

Codes are highly variable around the city. For example in Des Plaines only a licensed electrician can change a light switch, but you don't need a permit to replace a window. Other way around in my town.

There generally is no problem selling your house with "no permits on file" because no one ever checks for that. A buyer might check if they want the house and suspect poor quality work, but a permit is no guarantee of quality work.

[RJA29]

I know I'm drudging up an old thread here, but does anyone have experience with permits in Downers Grove? I will be doing some minor work (including a bathroom remodel) and want to know how long it might take to get permits, how crazy the inspectors might be, etc.

Thank you!

[mr roboto]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

Code chode, it's none of the cities business what you do with your basement. The idea is protecting you right, probably most likely for people sleeping in the basement they want window escapes. A fire could break out just as easily if your sitting on the couch watching tv in a nice dry walled basement or if your storing stuff in a concrete basement. It's nothing but semantics. Don't bother with code just dont get a big dumpster that's going to draw attention and do what you want to do. You made your first mistake even asking for persmission.

Yeah, no. Don't listen to this guy.