Evanston's pros & cons for us? (Chicago, Oak Park: real estate, condos, low crime)

[homeward bound]

Forgive me asking people to doubtless repeat themselves, but we'd love to hear your opinions and advice about this.

We currently live in southwest Virginia but are intent on moving in the next 3 years or so. We've been focusing on upstate New York--especially the Finger Lakes and Cooperstown areas. (I'm originally from Buffalo, and my wife fell in love with upstate NY and the Great Lakes states generally once we met and toured around). But several people have urged us to consider Evanston.

We've got two young boys at home and two daughters in college.

A semi-small town feel right next to a great city and a Great Lake, with a college-town vitality, is what many people have told us Evanston offers. Sounds very appealing. And there are a lot of things that would, I think, make us and Evanston a real good fit.

We love and would be seeking:
-Classy old architecture (an old house is a must)
-Leafy, well-established streets--we hate new suburb barrenness
-The traditional grid of single-family homes off of/around an old downtown (in other words, some place NOT too choked with malls and chain stores)
-The Great Lakes--you never know how big a part of your life they are until you're far from them!
-Good schools, of course
-Real winters/snow
-Parks
-Low crime
-Good food
-Baseball (definitely the Cubs & Wrigley--sorry Sox fans)
-Bike trails
-Driving into the country to farmer's markets, picnics, fishing, etc., on a weekend/in the summer
-Softball leagues
-Proximity to Michigan's Upper Penninsula and Ontario
-That always-elusive blend of liberal/tolerant/progressive and conservative/traditional/preservationist

Being so close to Chicago would be a big plus to us, too. Though only my wife has visited Chicago, where her dad's originally from, I'm sure I'd like it alot too: I love the big old American cities where they're not dangerous or depressing. By contrast, the newer boom "cities" (Charlotte, NC; Houston; just about anywhere in Florida, etc.) we find characterless.

In terms of jobs, we're both teachers. My wife is an award-winning high school English teacher, and after 20+ years of teaching college English, I'll be switching to teach middle school math & science (no, I don't chew razor blades for fun!) before we move. So are teaching jobs hard to find in and around Evanston? A 30-or-so minute commute, either by car or, better, by mass transit would be fine with both of us. Though my wife has great credentials, I think I'll be in good shape looking for a job, too, as a male with college-teaching credentials at the middle school level, and in a field that generally needs teachers. So if anyone can steer me to some concrete numbers on the teaching situations we'd face, including pay scale, we'd much appreciate it.

We understand that Evanston is pricey, with high taxes, too. The on-line real estate listings are impressive yet a bit daunting. So can you get a classy older home, on a street of well-kept older homes, for around $300,000? Though the bigger the better, 3 bedrooms and 1 or 1 & 1/2 bathrooms would be fine. What would the real estate taxes be on, say, a $300,000 home? (Part of this being doable would depend, of course, on our salary scales.) Are older fixer-uppers available at this kind of price? What are the crime concerns, problems, and iffy neighborhoods? Is Evanston more or less uniformly a good place to live, or does it have notorious bad areas?

A big issue for us is how annoying the college student presence/factor is there. A big reason we're moving from our current town is that it's just overrun with college students and their drinking, vandalizing, howling, fighting, etc. We're under assault way too often--it's no way to live. Is some, much, or most of Evanston insulated from this, or is it too overrun with college students? Are the more affordable homes (too) close to the campus/off-campus students, or are some nicely far from it/the college students too?

And to risk the big can of worms: Are ethnic/racial tensions bad? Our current town has a nice mix of people; and, of course, we want our youngest ones to grow up knowing that people are people, and thus to have any "type" of friend they want, just as our oldest kids have. So the Chicago area's great variety of people is very appealing. Even so, we don't want to push our kids into the middle of racial and ethnic tensions to try to engineer some kind of "diversity" in their lives. We want them to have a kid's life first, and from that sense of safety and enthusiasm, to recognize and value others' humanity. So--does Evanston have a bad set of racial or ethnic tensions? Or does the human variety there work together in and toward a common spirit not just of tolerance, but of shared citizenship? Is there real community, or too many factions, frictions, and tribes? I'd hate to take my kids from Virginia--where, believe it or not, I've seen relatively little bigotry in my 23 years here--to a more enlightened part of the country, only to have them fall into us-vs.-them thinking.

Thanks for any and all help you can give. And we hope you're all keeping warm.

[ahava]

I'm also a high school English teacher and I can tell you that jobs in the high-paying suburban districts are incredibly competitive. But hey, the Chicago Public Schools always need teachers . Seriously though, I would make friends with the State Board of Ed website at Illinois State Board of Education - you can find a lot of helpful info there if you look for it. High school teachers are generally paid very well here. K-8 teachers, not so much, but it varies greatly by district. I believe in Virginia an entire county has one school district; here there are upwards of thirty or forty districts in one county. Usually a few K-8 districts will feed to one or more high schools in a separate district. There are also some K-12 unit districts. High school teachers usually make more money in a high school district, and K-8 teachers usually make more money in a unit district.

As a general rule in Evanston, the closer to the lake you are, the better. Just south of Evanston is Rogers Park, a very "iffy" part of Chicago, but I have friends who have lived 3 blocks from Howard St (the border between Evanston and Rogers Park) for years and haven't had any problems. Really the only part of Evanston I'd want to stay away from is the area around the high school - the intersection of Church St & Dodge Ave and north of there to Emerson St. As for the college atmosphere, Northwestern U is not a state school and is nothing like one. Studying is a major activity, at least it was when I went to school there, and there's a big frat party scene but that's about it. If you don't live next to the campus you should be fine. My freshman and sophomore years I lived in a small dorm sandwiched between two frat houses, and I survived .

[LadyPleiades]

Yes Evanston has all those things, especially the homes, but they will not be anywhere close to $300k. We bought our 2br/1ba condo for $222k.

So, the racial issue might be a moot point, but the elementary schools are nicely integrated. The high school does have racial tensions, but it's like anywhere, for the most part, the kids segregate themselves naturally. And I think these racial tensions exist at any school where there's a lot of class divisions too.

My husband is from the Watertown area and so I know NY a bit. The weather here on the west side of the lake is much milder than being on the east side of any of the great lakes.

[DonkeyTeeth]

It sounds like aside from the aesthetics and location, there are some issues that might give you second thoughts about Evanston.

There are definitely areas like what you describe - classic Victorians and colonials on lush tree lined streets separated from the college areas but still providing easy access to downtown and the lake. Unfortunately, those types of areas are always in high demand, and I'd expect pricing to start around $500K for a single family in that setting. Unless you're looking for condos $300K will probably relegate you to 50's and 60's era boxy brick bungalows in areas further from the lake.

Like ahava said, if you're a few blocks removed from the campus and city center, you shouldn't be bothered too much by college rowdiness. Keep in mind that although its not a state 'party school', its still a large Big Ten school and the town will get very congested around major sporting or other campus events.

I don't think Evanston is racked by racial tensions, but there is definitely a divide between the Northwestern/North Shore east side of the city and the lower income west side. There were several newsmaking violent crimes this year in Evanston, including the shooting death of a popular high school athlete. Evanston is certainly politically liberal, so you won't be surrounded by vocal bigots. However, actions always speak louder than words, and I also don't think you'll see the two sides of the town mixing very often.

[lakecountylifer]

I love Evanston and lived their during my college days. Its not a small town, rather its a small city. The lake front is great for roller-blading, running, biking and there is a nice trail that goes through Northwestern. There are great restaurants and a real nice downtown area that has coffee houses, book stores and interesting mom & pop stores next to upscale boutiques. Unlike other college towns, Northwestern students do not dominate the town---I really wouldn't worry about that aspect---they are all smart kids for the most part.

Evanston is unique in that you can go to the city and not be tethered to your car. The L. From Sherman Ave can get you to Wrigley in 20 minutes or less if you can catch an express train at Howard.

Now, when I got married and had kids a few years ago, I made a decison to move back to lake county to the north for two reasons:

1. Unless you want to live in a condo or a bad neighborhood, $300K is not going to get you much.
2. I could not see my kids going to school in Evanston... Especially the high school.

Other than those two factors, Evanston is awesome.

[SloopyJ]

Originally Posted by lakecountylifer

I could not see my kids going to school in Evanston... Especially the high school.

Huh?

Evanston schools are very good to excellent. Many people are deceived by the "average" or "overall" test scores of the kids, which lag behind Evanston's neighbors to the north. Is that a reflection on the school? Probably not, considering scores for non-minority and non-free lunch kids in Evanston are equivalent to those of their counterparts to the north. Evanston just happens to have a lot more kids who come from more challenging home situations than do the suburbs north of there.

In any case, Evanston seems like it would be a great fit for you, but that home budget will be a big obstacle there. You might consider Oak Park, which fits much of your bill, and is more accessible (by car anyway) to more of the metropolitan area should your job location require that. Oak Park is only a little cheaper than Evanston, so finding something you like at $300K will be no easy task there either. You might consider La Grange Park; its better-known sibling (La Grange) is probably a little too expensive, but LGP shares a high school, a nice downtown, and is probably still affordable for you.

[Windy City John]

I believe real estate will be your biggest hang up. If you are currently living in Wise County, VA housing will be triple in Chicago. You might want to consider some additional Chicago communities -- or consider a condo or townhome. You can find a Chicago bungaloo in your price range but don't expect any 2 story Victorians that are in good repair for $300K. Perhaps Oak Park, River Forest, Riverside, Hyde Park or even further out like Berwin or Brookfield you could find a Bungaloo that meets your needs. I am not saying you cant find it in Evanston--but I think there would be a major compromise-- age, condition, location, etc. Check out the real estate sites.

[homeward bound]

For all the thoughtful replies. Much appreciated.

Also, if you think of any nearby smallish towns--say, 20,000 people or fewer--with great old houses and a downtown not ruined by malls, etc., please list them, too. We're still leaning very heavily toward upstate NY, but living near Chicago, in what we've been told are its many handsome old surrounding communities, does have a lot of appeal.

One further question, just out of curiosity.

The only parts of Lake Michigan we've visited have been along the southern edge of Michigan's Upper Peninsula--especially at the cliffs and the harbor of Michigan's Fayette State Park (well worth visiting, by the way). The lake there was just beautiful--and the deepest blue of any of the Great Lakes. It also seemed remarkably clean. We could easily see 10, 20 feet to the bottom along the shore. No algae, no sudsy film to the surf, a clean and cleansing smell, etc.

What's the water quality like down by Chicago? Are the gov't. agencies taking adequate measures to clean up and protect the lake down there?

Thanks again to all!

[fridleygal]

homeward bound - not to burst your bubble, but unless you spend 750,000 on a house, the quality of lake Michigan won't matter, because you won't ever see it!!!! The entire North Shore is all private beaches, from north of Chicago to almost Wisconsin - not that you can't sneak in to tan with the mucky mucks once a summer, but it won't be part of your daily lives! sorry

[ahava]

Originally Posted by fridleygal

homeward bound - not to burst your bubble, but unless you spend 750,000 on a house, the quality of lake Michigan won't matter, because you won't ever see it!!!! The entire North Shore is all private beaches, from north of Chicago to almost Wisconsin - not that you can't sneak in to tan with the mucky mucks once a summer, but it won't be part of your daily lives! sorry

That's not entirely true. I go to the Clark St beach in Evanston at least once every summer, and it's not free but you don't have to live in Evanston to get in. And the beach in Lake Forest is free - you have to have a Lake Forest sticker to park in the lot there, but you can park on the street and walk over. Plus there's always Illinois Beach State Park...