North vs west suburbs (Chicago, Naperville: home, employment, buyers)

[jman07]

I was wondering how the west vs north suburbs were viewed compared to each other. This is excluding the north shore.

[chitownperson]

Why exclude the north shore in the vs if they're apart of the north suburbs? Also, with what criteria are you wanting comparisons?

[jman07]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

Why exclude the north shore in the vs if they're apart of the north suburbs? Also, with what criteria are you wanting comparisons?

I exclude the north shore becasue thats obviously the most affluent area of Chicago, so there would be no comparison.

[ToriaT]

It seems to me in many ways they would be similar. The one thing that I think the western suburbs have are cute little downtown areas. North Shore communities have these but I am not sure about the others. I know Skokie had a downtown area. Places like Downers Grove, Wheaton, Naperville, Glen Ellyn and Elmhurst all have older downtown areas with shops and restaurants. I don't know about places like Northbrook or Buffalo Grove or Deerfield. They have shopping areas but maybe not an older downtown core.

[chet everett]

Firstly you would be flat out wrong if you assume that there is any "wealth gap" between the North Shore and desirable western suburbs -- the data on things like household income AND community size make a pretty strong case for things to be very close in terms of total affluence...

Secondly the shifts in employment mean that there had been a massive concentration of high paying jobs in the Loop and a just a handful of other corridors -- northern Cook Co has largely lost out to Lake Co and that pulled lots of higher income families even further out, for folks working in the greater Schaumburg area OR areas near the 88 corridor between Oak Brook and Naperville the west suburbs tend to offer greater flexibility: the option of using BNSF or UP-W line makes things work better for dual-income households compared to longer travel times and less speedy train service for UP-N line...

The big edge that the North Shore has is for the handful of truly 'dripping in it" folks that can afford lakefront property that is a unique plus. Honestly that is such a tiny slice of the North Shore that is does not " move the needle". I suspect a large percentage of such folks are rather detached from the "community" -- their kids probably have more in common with the uber privledged private school crowd that goes to places like Sidwell Friends with the DC elite or other east cost prep schools. Really, as impressive as things like New Trier's approach to teacher particitipative evaluation of peers is to folks in the know, the numeric rankings of performance don't reflect any additional achievement on objective testing.

When it comes to "charm" and even range of housing you'd be hard pressed to say any indivual blocks in western suburbs like Lagrange, Riverside, Western Springs, Hinsdale, Elmhurst, Glen Ellyn, Naperville or Wheaton are other than equal / superior to any of the inland north suburbs or non-waterfront blocks in any North Shore community.

Similarly the academic performance of schools and even athletic acheivement would tend to parallel the patterns of affluence that are seen -- desirable towns have a whole lot going for 'em and towns that are more affordable tend to have more limited appeal.

Maybe the one area that tends not to track directly with affluence is the specific location of retail hubs & nicer resturants -- the economics of finding a "row" that is conducive to the traffic / mess of a successful mall or eatery often means these are in towns adjacent to the truly "desirable" addresses. And once folks are in a car then the drive radius is the real limiting factor, thus folks in Hinsdale don't mind driving to Western Springs, Lagrange or Oak Brook just as folks in Winnetka don't mind driving to Skokie, Highland Park, Wheeling or Northfield...

Of course try as one might to base everything of the realative objectivity of real estste prices and household incomes that would still be an incomplete analysis. Honestly when it comes to certain price points there is little disagreement that some towns really are the "top choice" of folks that can, based on their income, afford to live anywhere, and many of the factors are really an expression of who they want to have as neighbors / what unique characteristics buyers are looking for. Thus folks driven by a desire to have a certain "ZIP code" attach their own emotional rationale to certain towns and their tends to be a a spectrum of folks that do share these same less than objective views of certain towns -- it becomes a bit of self fulfilling characteristic...

[jman07]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Firstly you would be flat out wrong if you assume that there is any "wealth gap" between the North Shore and desirable western suburbs -- the data on things like household income AND community size make a pretty strong case for things to be very close in terms of total affluence...

Secondly the shifts in employment mean that there had been a massive concentration of high paying jobs in the Loop and a just a handful of other corridors -- northern Cook Co has largely lost out to Lake Co and that pulled lots of higher income families even further out, for folks working in the greater Schaumburg area OR areas near the 88 corridor between Oak Brook and Naperville the west suburbs tend to offer greater flexibility: the option of using BNSF or UP-W line makes things work better for dual-income households compared to longer travel times and less speedy train service for UP-N line...

The big edge that the North Shore has is for the handful of truly 'dripping in it" folks that can afford lakefront property that is a unique plus. Honestly that is such a tiny slice of the North Shore that is does not " move the needle". I suspect a large percentage of such folks are rather detached from the "community" -- their kids probably have more in common with the uber privledged private school crowd that goes to places like Sidwell Friends with the DC elite or other east cost prep schools. Really, as impressive as things like New Trier's approach to teacher particitipative evaluation of peers is to folks in the know, the numeric rankings of performance don't reflect any additional achievement on objective testing.

When it comes to "charm" and even range of housing you'd be hard pressed to say any indivual blocks in western suburbs like Lagrange, Riverside, Western Springs, Hinsdale, Elmhurst, Glen Ellyn, Naperville or Wheaton are other than equal / superior to any of the inland north suburbs or non-waterfront blocks in any North Shore community.

Similarly the academic performance of schools and even athletic acheivement would tend to parallel the patterns of affluence that are seen -- desirable towns have a whole lot going for 'em and towns that are more affordable tend to have more limited appeal.

Maybe the one area that tends not to track directly with affluence is the specific location of retail hubs & nicer resturants -- the economics of finding a "row" that is conducive to the traffic / mess of a successful mall or eatery often means these are in towns adjacent to the truly "desirable" addresses. And once folks are in a car then the drive radius is the real limiting factor, thus folks in Hinsdale don't mind driving to Western Springs, Lagrange or Oak Brook just as folks in Winnetka don't mind driving to Skokie, Highland Park, Wheeling or Northfield...

Of course try as one might to base everything of the realative objectivity of real estste prices and household incomes that would still be an incomplete analysis. Honestly when it comes to certain price points there is little disagreement that some towns really are the "top choice" of folks that can, based on their income, afford to live anywhere, and many of the factors are really an expression of who they want to have as neighbors / what unique characteristics buyers are looking for. Thus folks driven by a desire to have a certain "ZIP code" attach their own emotional rationale to certain towns and their tends to be a a spectrum of folks that do share these same less than objective views of certain towns -- it becomes a bit of self fulfilling characteristic...

Damn. That was like a newspaper article or research paper.

[jman07]

Are they any different in regards to density and spacing/open space?

[chet everett]

In a general sense there are very similar land use patterns in the whole region driven largely by the radial pattern of rail, surface streets and highways (both toll and free) that concentrate connections near the Loop. As you get toward th edge of the city, and then the counties, there are patterns of cementaries and landfills, belts of areas that more affordable due to these undesirable uses and then nicer areas. This same pattern repeats not just toward the west and north but also the south suburbs...

Of course the "open space" that matters is not so much landfills(don't laugh many have been closed are home to golf courses or other recrrational spcaes...) and cemetaries but things like parks and Forest Preserves. Since you more quickly get to the rather nice spaces of the DuPage Co Forest Preserves heading west while the financially troubled Cook Co Presrerves are noticeably neglected, the various municipal parks in towns of northern Cook Co are quite nice and of course the towns with beaches on the North Shore have a resource that no pool in the western burbs can compete with...

Honestly there are some patterns that are so repeatable that you see the same things even in adjacent states -- the various patterns of land use that you see in towns of NW Indiana and Wisconsin also tend to be more or less "lake centric" is areas where the waterfront was not ruined with industrial uses. Whether you in Whitefish Bay north of Milwaukee or even the Miller Beach area of Gary you see some of the same styles of land use. Of course the population in Milwaukee or Gary is so tiny compared to Chicago that the overall economic impact of these areas is kind of invisible...

[Lookout Kid]

Well, there is certainly a belt of suburbs going west that have seen better days. Going north you don't have any suburbs like Maywood, Bellwood, Berkley, Hillside, Broadview… Or even like Cicero or Berwyn. It's more uniformly wealthy to the north, until you jump over to the west side of O'Hare. The more affordable suburbs like Des Plaines, Niles, and Skokie are still quite a bit more expensive and have fewer socioeconomic problems than a place like Forest View or Hillside.

[chet everett]

Hmmm, North Chicago? Waukegan? Round Lake Beach? Zion? ...

True, they are not quite the "belt of tears" in terms of layout but the failures of these towns are every bit as discouraging as anything in the region...