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Old 06-11-2014, 08:05 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 2,324,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paige65 View Post
Could you post a list of the top ten public high schools when breaking out the PSAE for non-low-income students.
Headings: Rank, School, Reading, Math, Science, Total

1 DEERFIELD 93 94 93 280
2 HINSDALE CENTRAL (HINSDALE) 90 91 90 271
3 NEW TRIER (WINNETKA) 89 90 90 269
4 STEVENSON (LINCOLNSHIRE) 88 91 89 268
5 BARRINGTON 89 89 87 265
6 NAPERVILLE NORTH 88 86 87 261
7 LIBERTYVILLE 86 87 87 260
8(t) GLENBROOK SOUTH (GLENVIEW) 86 88 84 258
8(t) NAPERVILLE CENTRAL 86 85 87 258
9 GLENBROOK NORTH (NORTHBROOK) 86 88 82 256
10(t) WHEATON NORTH 85 86 84 255
10(t) NEUQUA VALLEY (NAPERVILLE) 85 86 84 255
10(t) LAKE FOREST 86 84 85 255

(Source: IllinoisReportCard.com)

This was done hastily, so please free free to check my work. I may have missed a school.

Last edited by holl1ngsworth; 06-11-2014 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
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I'm struggling to navigate the site you all linked to, but must say, our schools are always well ranked, include 11% low income students, with 48% of the students being minority and it feeds into one of the top-ranked high schools in the nation, so I don't see where the schools in Wheaton are so different. I'm fairly certain if we took the time to look at other areas in the suburbs, we would find similar numbers.

But, I'm not finding the site to be terribly user-friendly, so I could be reading it wrong.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
our schools are always well ranked, include 11% low income students, with 48% of the students being minority and it feeds into one of the top-ranked high schools in the nation,
What school(s) are you referring to?
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:48 PM
 
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Default Again, not sure the data is really meant to be used that way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Point taken on the CUSD v SD. Tax dollar efficiency and all that is a whole different argument.

Nonetheless, Braeside had the highest scores of any non-magnet school in the state in 2011 and 2012, and you will find it at the very top of any lists for those years, and many years before.

I actually referenced North Shore SD 112 because of Highwood and the diversity it adds -- which in many ways makes the overall economic diversity of SD 112 very similar to that of CUSD 200. That said, North Shore SD 112 has many schools that parents "quibble" over because the high level of segregation within 112 creates stand-out schools like Braeside and Ravinia. (98% and 97% non-low income, respectively!)

CUSD 200 has much more evenly distributed low-income students at it's schools and therefore falls off the radar of many parents and list-makers -- DESPITE students in CUSD 200 testing better than schools like Braeside and Ravinia.

Lastly, the whole thrust of my argument has been that the "Honor Roll" is total BS. In order to make AYP, all subgroups within a school must meet/exceed 90%. Problem is, a subgroup is only a subgroup if it contains 45 students at the school! For example, Lincoln Elementary (River Forest) made AYP and is on the "Honor Roll" despite black students scoring a 79% and Hispanic students scoring a 75%! Why? Because it doesn't have enough students in either of those subgroups for them to qualify as a subgroup! A school of 390 students like Lincoln could ostensibly be 10% black, Hispanic or low-income and not have any of those students count towards their AYP! Meanwhile, schools like those in Wheaton are punished for their diversity -- (again) DESPITE them producing better test scores among non-low income students than the "Honor Roll" schools!

My point is: If the OP (or anyone) is a non-low income parent, they should educate themselves on where the best non-low income test scores are -- because those are the schools where their children will have the highest probability of success. Inverse is true for low-income, black, Hispanic parents. Know your subgroup and learn where your children will have the best chance to thrive.

The things to "like" about the Honor Roll is that it does "recognize" schools that might otherwise not be on the "radar" of parents that assume all CPS facilities are awful or have only a limited amount of time to identify a place to live when relocating. {There are also special categories of schools with good scores far better than the racial / economic profiles would suggest, which I personally think is also a good think, though in some cases these schools still have other issues that may make them a poor choice...}

It is not fair to call the Honor Roll "BS", as I continue to stress, the fact is the schools most likely to have the largest percentages of students doing well are those with the greatest percentage of affluent students (which is not tracked directly but is generally easy to find by looking at data from home sales and census tract reported incomes...) which puts Oak Brook and Winnetka at the top of the heap but that is sort of a "side effect" of this kind of testing at the elementary level. {Not sure that I have mentioned it in this thread but there is a bit a fall off in certain towns that are even pricier than those and that can generally be traced to factors that include an unusually large percentage of the "ultra rich" send their kids to the "ultra costly" residential private schools and the kids "left behind" are often sorta like 2% milk -- still real healthy just with the creamiest bits skimmed off...}

There really are no national type rankings for elementary schools like those that do exist for high schools where one does see kind of impressive numbers of kids doing well on AP tests at schools that do serve students not traditionally associated with affluent areas -- like Jones Metropolitan or the handful of other schools in inner city settings that "beat the odds". You would need SOMETHING like that to say that there is something "especially good" about how the low-income. The fact is that maybe it does make sense to try to find an inexpensive apartment in Winnetka or Glencoe to be the "poorest family in the most resource rich district" or maybe it makes more sense to live in an affordable part of Wheaton or Downers Grove or Skokie or wherever BUT so far as the tests are concerns they really do not have enough detail to conclude these things and frankly even if they did I doubt that parents that most could benefit from this info would actually be able to do that analysis.

I stand by my roundabout refusal to plink off the "top five" schools and wish folks were a but more like holl1ngsworth in their ability to see the good in LOTS of schools but I also wish that more folks, including holl1ngsworth, would recognize that so far the results of the testing associated with NCLB (and very likely PARCC/ Common Core...) are utterly unlikely to "change" anything in a meaningful way for kids most in need of having "the best" schools... I personally can thing of ways that some schools do collect data (like NWEA's MAP testing...) that could very much distinctly identify what specific students who did receive specific interventions were especially usefull in helping the most "at risk" students but there are roadblocks to such a strategy including the structure of ISBE and the teacher unions.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:57 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,957,533 times
Reputation: 18725
Default Headings????

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
1 DEERFIELD 93 94 93 280
2 HINSDALE CENTRAL (HINSDALE) 90 91 90 271
3 NEW TRIER (WINNETKA) 89 90 90 269
4 STEVENSON (LINCOLNSHIRE) 88 91 89 268
5 BARRINGTON 89 89 87 265
6 NAPERVILLE NORTH 88 86 87 261
7 LIBERTYVILLE 86 87 87 260
8(t) GLENBROOK SOUTH (GLENVIEW) 86 88 84 258
8(t) NAPERVILLE CENTRAL 86 85 87 258
9 GLENBROOK NORTH (NORTHBROOK) 86 88 82 256
10(t) WHEATON NORTH 85 86 84 255
10(t) NEUQUA VALLEY (NAPERVILLE) 85 86 84 255
10(t) LAKE FOREST 86 84 85 255

(Source: IllinoisReportCard.com)

This was done hastily, so please free free to check my work. I may have missed a school.
What are these numbers?
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:59 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 2,324,601 times
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Reading, math, science, total for PSAE. I will edit previous post.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:06 PM
 
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So you are literally adding the values for percentage of non-low income student that meet/exceed to get "total"?

Interesting ...
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:27 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 2,324,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
but I also wish that more folks, including holl1ngsworth, would recognize that so far the results of the testing associated with NCLB (and very likely PARCC/ Common Core...) are utterly unlikely to "change" anything in a meaningful way for kids most in need of having "the best" schools
I don't think its fair to compare test-in schools to traditional neighborhood schools. Is there an "Honor Roll" elementary school in Chicago that doesn't have a magnet component?

Also, I totally agree with your above statement. If you don't think I do, you are missing my point. But you are referencing the "Honor Roll" -- which is built on "testing associated with NCLB." We all are using the tests. That's all we have right now.

I also don't like people that plink-off the top x number of schools and belittle schools outside of the top x. I think if parents are involved in their children's education, they can see success at most any school. But I also understand parents that want to seek out the best schools, I did the same a year ago. I just wish that "best" or "top" was applied to more schools and there was an easier way to disseminate information to the parents that need it most.

I was just trying to make an even-handed comparisons between elementary schools for the OP, something the "Honor Roll" and some ranking organizations don't do a very good job at.

That said, anybody found a public elementary school with higher non-low income test scores than Longfellow in Wheaton?
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:14 PM
 
939 posts, read 2,368,772 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Headings: Rank, School, Reading, Math, Science, Total

1 DEERFIELD 93 94 93 280
2 HINSDALE CENTRAL (HINSDALE) 90 91 90 271
3 NEW TRIER (WINNETKA) 89 90 90 269
4 STEVENSON (LINCOLNSHIRE) 88 91 89 268
5 BARRINGTON 89 89 87 265
6 NAPERVILLE NORTH 88 86 87 261
7 LIBERTYVILLE 86 87 87 260
8(t) GLENBROOK SOUTH (GLENVIEW) 86 88 84 258
8(t) NAPERVILLE CENTRAL 86 85 87 258
9 GLENBROOK NORTH (NORTHBROOK) 86 88 82 256
10(t) WHEATON NORTH 85 86 84 255
10(t) NEUQUA VALLEY (NAPERVILLE) 85 86 84 255
10(t) LAKE FOREST 86 84 85 255

(Source: IllinoisReportCard.com)

This was done hastily, so please free free to check my work. I may have missed a school.
Thanks. I found the report card and calculated as well. I was somewhat surprised to see Highland Park finished so "low" when taking out the 15% low income. Perhaps that means they are doing a better job of getting the low income kids up to snuff? The overall score also not as high as in the past. Thanks for the list!
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,463,820 times
Reputation: 29383
I'm confused. Your initial post went on about how great Longfellow Elementary School is in Wheaton, only to post the scores of high schools.

But honestly, it seems like you're looking at specific things to fit a narrative.
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