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Old 08-24-2015, 04:58 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 85,354,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhousegirl View Post
There is truth to that. Hopefully things are changing and will continue to change in the future as old attitudes and the people that hold them fade away.

The Chicago area has so much going for it with Flossmoor truly being a "jewel" suburb. I now live in suburban Atlanta in a diverse area quite similar to Flossmoor (where we moved from), and marvel at how people think Atlanta is segregated. Compared to Chicago? Ha!

When I run into one of the grocery chains in what may be described as a lower socioeconomic area, I see everyone. Poor blacks, whites, latinos, asians. I would not see that on 87th street and the Ryan.

Flossmoor has to really do something about the schools. Western Ave's numbers looked good still, but the others not so much. And again as I and several others have mentioned, it's the outrageous taxes and the schools. Where I am now 300k-400k will get you a sweet, sweet house with amenities, taxes at maybe 4K, could be less. In Flossmoor the taxes can easily be triple depending on where you are for the same cost house.

However, there is such a vast difference in the quality of life in living in a walkable suburb versus car driven that I could almost weep. I can't begin to say how much I loved living in Flossmoor. I hope property values continue to rise, the schools improve, and Illinois gets its act together financially.
The state has really got to come to terms with the squeeze they are putting on towns like Flossmoor! There is no way that folks can continue to pay so much in property taxes year after year.
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:53 PM
 
119 posts, read 299,913 times
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The south suburban housing market has been completely watered down with the excessive building of new construction in surrounding areas. White flight has been used as a tool for builders to sell lots of new construction housing. In a region where the growth fundamentals such as job creation and overall regional population growth. Doesn't support there being a need for so much newly built housing. The trouble in the south suburban housing market began all the way back in the late 80's with white flight to orland park and tinley park. And the watering down of the housing market with all of that new housing construction build out. And continued on into the 2000's with frankfort, new lenox, mokena, Channahon, etc. Up until the mid 1980's, flossmoor and neighboring olympia fields. Were comparable in home prices with west suburban hinsdale and oak brook. Prices began to stall in the late 80's and the stall was fairly evident by the early 90's. None of the newer built out areas have kept up with the level of home price appreciation of comparable western or northern suburbs. The level of price appreciation and affluence seen up until the late 80's in neighborhoods like flossmoor and olympia fields. Was brought on by an in balance regional housing market. And has not been duplicated in the new growth areas.

Last edited by gregbuck; 08-24-2015 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:22 PM
 
62 posts, read 91,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnalpha View Post
As I read all of these thinly veiled racist comments, one thought continues to pop up - where else are scared white folks going to run?
If I were a black person living in Chicagoland right now, I'd be less worried about white people moving away from me and more worried being displaced by hispanics, who compete more directly with blacks for jobs and real estate than they do the wealthy white overclass that populates Chicagoland.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,398 posts, read 6,080,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
It's very hard to fight the trend. Even if you personally are comfortable with a mixed race neighborhood, the overwhelming historical trend in Chicagoland is that a mixed neighborhood rapidly becomes minority-only with catastrophic results for property values. Most people aren't able to weather a 50+% reduction in home equity. How many towns/neighborhoods have been able to avoid white flight over the long-term once the (non-Asian) minority population creeps above 20%?
Just curious why do you have non-Asian in your last sentence?
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,525 posts, read 13,947,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army_Guy View Post
Just curious why do you have non-Asian in your last sentence?
Because I believe the historical trend is different with regards to home values when Asian families move into a town. I think there are a fair number of suburbs which have high Asian populations (although maybe not 20%) which have not triggered significant white flight. Unlike other minority groups, Asian families in Chicagoland have higher incomes on average than white families. There's plenty of other theories which have been raised and debated over why the Asian experience is different from most other non-white minorities. I haven't looked into the precise numbers so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Last edited by oakparkdude; 08-24-2015 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:03 AM
 
62 posts, read 91,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
Because I believe the historical trend is different with regards to home values when Asian families move into a town. I think there are a fair number of suburbs which have high Asian populations (although maybe not 20%) which have not triggered significant white flight. Unlike other minority groups, Asian families in Chicagoland have higher incomes on average than white families. There's plenty of other theories which have been raised and debated over why the Asian experience is different from most other non-white minorities. I haven't looked into the precise numbers so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Asians are statistically far less likely to commit crimes than blacks and hispanics. They also aren't eligible for Affirmative Action so they're forced to achieve success entirely on their own merits. This makes them more culturally compatible with whites than blacks and hispanics.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccidentExpress View Post
Asians are statistically far less likely to commit crimes than blacks and hispanics. They also aren't eligible for Affirmative Action so they're forced to achieve success entirely on their own merits. This makes them more culturally compatible with whites than blacks and hispanics.
Check out this definition of "Model Minority", which argues that this is still stereotyping that can have negative consequences.

Quote from that Wikipedia article:

"Generalized statistics are often cited to back up model minority status such as high educational achievement and a high representation in white collar professions. A common misconception is that the affected communities usually hold pride in their labeling as the model minority. The model minority stereotype is considered detrimental to relevant minority communities because it is used to justify the exclusion of minorities in the distribution of assistance programs, both public and private, as well as to understate or slight the achievements of individuals within that minority. Furthermore, the idea of the model minority pits minority groups against each other by implying that non-model groups are at fault for falling short of the model minority level of achievement and assimilation."
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:44 AM
 
62 posts, read 91,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
Check out this definition of "Model Minority", which argues that this is still stereotyping that can have negative consequences.
A 'model minority' to me is one that values its own culture without encroaching on my (white) culture. Asians, more than any other minority, fit this definition. Unlike blacks and hispanics, they don't expect Western society to cater to their every whim, and they aren't a cultural and economic drain on America.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,398 posts, read 6,080,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
Because I believe the historical trend is different with regards to home values when Asian families move into a town. I think there are a fair number of suburbs which have high Asian populations (although maybe not 20%) which have not triggered significant white flight. Unlike other minority groups, Asian families in Chicagoland have higher incomes on average than white families. There's plenty of other theories which have been raised and debated over why the Asian experience is different from most other non-white minorities. I haven't looked into the precise numbers so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I can't say you're wrong but I do think the Asian groups would have to be broken down even further if you're talking about incomes. I don't think the southwest or southeast Asians are as high income. Afghans are actually Asian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccidentExpress View Post
Asians are statistically far less likely to commit crimes than blacks and hispanics. They also aren't eligible for Affirmative Action so they're forced to achieve success entirely on their own merits. This makes them more culturally compatible with whites than blacks and hispanics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccidentExpress View Post
A 'model minority' to me is one that values its own culture without encroaching on my (white) culture. Asians, more than any other minority, fit this definition. Unlike blacks and hispanics, they don't expect Western society to cater to their every whim, and they aren't a cultural and economic drain on America.
Affirmative Action seems to work against Asians. I think I read that in some schools in California, Asians need to score higher in order to be accepted into the school because there are too many Asians.

Asians have been discriminated against here in America: the Japanese internment camps, anti-Chinese legislation, etc. yet Asians always seem to overcome and become successful instead of whining and complaining.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:33 AM
 
11,975 posts, read 31,784,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccidentExpress View Post
A 'model minority' to me is one that values its own culture without encroaching on my (white) culture. Asians, more than any other minority, fit this definition. Unlike blacks and hispanics, they don't expect Western society to cater to their every whim, and they aren't a cultural and economic drain on America.
I'm not even sure where to start... It's a brutal, inhuman world view to reduce people to these terms. And it ignores a lot of history and economics. Was it an "economic drain on America" to have an agricultural economy based on free slave labor for hundreds of years? What about all of the inexpensive goods and services produced today by migrant workers from Latin America? Sure, we are on the hook for greater social safety net payments for poorer populations, but why are we not holding businesses accountable who reap the $$$ benefits of this cheap labor? What about the benefits to consumers in the form of lower prices?

A modern day person who drops out of school, commits crimes, and requires a lot of social services could be viewed as a "drain on society" if you allow yourself to think that way about you fellow human beings, but you really can't pin this all of blacks and Hispanics. Most welfare recipients are white. Most people on Social Security Disability are white. And in areas where the percentages are higher, you can't ignore the fact that opportunities are not equal for whites, blacks, and Hispanics. And if you are willing to reduce human beings to "the worthy" and the "not worthy", what about all of the retired Americans on Social Security and Medicare, which are increasing in number each year as life expectancy increases and Baby Boomers retire? Are you yourself going to reject those payments when the time comes? You know, for the "greater good" and so you won't be a "drain on society" as you age long past the point of being productive? What if economic calamity or an unexpected medical expense wipes out your savings?
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