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Old 07-23-2014, 11:16 AM
 
119 posts, read 299,998 times
Reputation: 81

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty40 View Post
I guess you're going to continue to frame statements as questions. You have your answer- the house sells for less because of the tax liability. If the taxes were $6k a year, the price of the home would not be $750-$850K.
Accurate point. The issue really is more complex then just charging an unsustainable low property tax and cutting vital services. That won't fix the problem any more than over taxing higher end homes in the area. Which only has led to a more depressed housing market for larger homes in flossmoor and olympia fields in particular. And causes the need for the property tax rates to be increased even higher. I just don't feel that the tax burden in flossmoor is spread out in a way that fairly reflects current home values. Many larger homes are over assessed in the area. While many more of the average size to modest homes are actually under assessed. You will sometimes see a real estate sales listing for an average or more modest home in flossmoor or olympia fields. Which will mention the home's lower than expected property tax burden as an actual selling point.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:25 AM
 
119 posts, read 299,998 times
Reputation: 81
bmollhag,

The issue with the charter and magnet schools in the city of chicago is there just isn't enough funding to accommodate the demand for them. Many of the far south suburban school districts have funding rates per student on par with higher performing suburban school districts. Funding is not the issue and there is no reason why there can't be enough availability to accommodate the demand. It's all about having good options. A one size fits all approach does not work for economically diverse school districts. Having open admissions charter schools based on providing more rigorous course work and magnet schools with admissions standards. Would go a long way to improving perception of south suburban school districts having high quality school options.

Last edited by gregbuck; 07-23-2014 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:41 PM
 
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In regards to housing values and all we can speculate and answer the "What will happen to Flossmoor" question. My point is in regards to the people that want to buy in Flossmoor. The people are the concern, the people who create the wonderful sense of place and community that Flossmoor offers which is generally centered around kids and the public schools. The home buyer base is decreased if the schools don't justify paying the high taxes. Without the people that value and support a community based around thriving public schools a very different type of Flossmoor will emerge.

High costs and upkeep can be stressful no matter the income. It seems as if there are more two parent working families in Flossmoor than in the past creating harried schedules for kids and while education is valued in lip service, it is not necessarily followed up upon by choice or by circumstances, which is reflected in the overall ratings of the schools, Particularly Parker and HF. It was already mentioned, but Western Ave can't be the only higher scoring school whether you isolate demographics or not.

When we were there, parents were almost having a cow at the thought of sending their little poo poo to Parker! Again stress. Stressed out parents, some of it unwarranted I'm sure. We left Flossmoor just prior to the middle school years, but our son would have gone to Parker unless it was some absolutely horrible situation occurring there!! You know why? Because that is the main reason we left the city so he could go to excellent schools, public schools. We did not move to the suburbs just for the house, but we wanted a sense of community based around a strong school system - that was our main focus. So... If the schools aren't "good" for half of the kid's education that would not have worked for us. We went private in the city and were not going to go private in the suburbs.

And for those who now live in Flossmoor, do they still do the annual little league parade and throw candy onto the streets for the kids? And I think the festival is back up from a couple of years hiatus. My husband would always chuckle and comment about how everything was straight out of a yuppies central casting paradise, everything so seemingly perfect.
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:36 PM
 
36 posts, read 75,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbuck View Post
bmollhag,

The issue with the charter and magnet schools in the city of chicago is there just isn't enough funding to accommodate the demand for them. Many of the far south suburban school districts have funding rates per student on par with higher performing suburban school districts. Funding is not the issue and there is no reason why there can't be enough availability to accommodate the demand. It's all about having good options. A one size fits all approach does not work for economically diverse school districts. Having open admissions charter schools based on providing more rigorous course work and magnet schools with admissions standards. Would go a long way to improving perception of south suburban school districts having high quality school options.
Funding isn't the issue here, test scores and the quality of the schools are. Very few are going to move to the suburbs, have a huge property tax bill, and not be able to use the public schools. No one wants to pay that huge tax bill and then have to audition for their children to have the possibility of a great education. In the city its different because people with that kind of money who choose to stay with children already have private in their mind and perhaps catch a break if their child gets into a great charter.

I don't know whats going to happen to Flossomor in particular, but if something drastic is not done the southern suburbs are going to go down. Property values are plummeting and people are desperate to get out of their homes. This is happening at a time when people of the south side of Chicago are desperate to leave the city to escape the violence. The people in the southern suburbs, and some western ones as well, are renting their homes with section 8 vouchers. These suburbs will become the new ghetto. These people will bring all the blight of the south side to the suburbs because what they are changing is only the location and not the social dysfunctions that create them. Flossomor will not be able to withstand this kind of poverty. At the same time I don't see it going this way because the properties are worth too much for section 8 to even cover their mortgages. Perhaps the politicians will figure a way to put some university there so it can be the Hyde Park of the suburbs, but who knows...
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:03 PM
 
119 posts, read 299,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmollhag View Post
Funding isn't the issue here, test scores and the quality of the schools are. Very few are going to move to the suburbs, have a huge property tax bill, and not be able to use the public schools. No one wants to pay that huge tax bill and then have to audition for their children to have the possibility of a great education. In the city its different because people with that kind of money who choose to stay with children already have private in their mind and perhaps catch a break if their child gets into a great charter.

I don't know whats going to happen to Flossomor in particular, but if something drastic is not done the southern suburbs are going to go down. Property values are plummeting and people are desperate to get out of their homes. This is happening at a time when people of the south side of Chicago are desperate to leave the city to escape the violence. The people in the southern suburbs, and some western ones as well, are renting their homes with section 8 vouchers. These suburbs will become the new ghetto. These people will bring all the blight of the south side to the suburbs because what they are changing is only the location and not the social dysfunctions that create them. Flossomor will not be able to withstand this kind of poverty. At the same time I don't see it going this way because the properties are worth too much for section 8 to even cover their mortgages. Perhaps the politicians will figure a way to put some university there so it can be the Hyde Park of the suburbs, but who knows...
Do you really think that Section 8 will cover the rent on a home in flossmoor? Just off the principle of it, probably not. A flossmoor condo being rented section 8, maybe. For one, demand is high in flossmoor. It's not like no one wants to live in flossmoor. Rents for flossmoor homes start at at around $2200. Your scenario of everyone with money deciding to completely abandon flossmoor for an ideal place somewhere else. Just sounds completely unrealistic. It kind of reminds me of a book I read a while ago called Atlas Shrugged. You keep basing your opinions from your ideal of a perfect neighborhood. That very rarely even exist outside of non wealthy communities. And certainly won't exist in flossmoor. That doesn't mean the area will become a ghetto. The reality is the school district is economically diverse. The Student body at Parker Jr High is about 46 percent low income. It had a fair amount of low income students when I attended Parker 20 something years ago. The bottom line is areas like Flossmoor and Olympia Fields continue to offer a very high standard of living in the southern suburbs. But more now than ever. There needs to be good options in terms of public education. Not one size fits all. Given how economically diverse the school districts are.
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:25 PM
 
36 posts, read 75,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbuck View Post
Do you really think that Section 8 will cover the rent on a home in flossmoor? Just off the principle of it, probably not. A flossmoor condo being rented section 8, maybe. For one, demand is high in flossmoor. It's not like no one wants to live in flossmoor. Rents for flossmoor homes start at at around $2200. Your scenario of everyone with money deciding to completely abandon flossmoor for an ideal place somewhere else. Just sounds completely unrealistic. It kind of reminds me of a book I read a while ago called Atlas Shrugged. You keep basing your opinions from your ideal of a perfect neighborhood. That very rarely even exist outside of non wealthy communities. And certainly won't exist in flossmoor. That doesn't mean the area will become a ghetto. The reality is the school district is economically diverse. The Student body at Parker Jr High is about 46 percent low income. It had a fair amount of low income students when I attended Parker 20 something years ago. The bottom line is areas like Flossmoor and Olympia Fields continue to offer a very high standard of living in the southern suburbs. But more now than ever. There needs to be good options in terms of public education. Not one size fits all. Given how economically diverse the school districts are.
If you read my post I said I don't think flossmoor would go that way because the section 8 wouldn't even cover their mortgages. I realize it is a desirable place for rent right now, but as surrounding areas get worse (and they will) it won't continue to be unless flossmoor receives some sort of employment or boost to its economy that's unique onto itself. That is what Hyde Park is, an island. Also this is nothing like Atlas Shrugged. It is merely a question of numbers. Most people move to the suburbs for good public schools and safety. Very few will buy in this suburb if the school district continues to deteriorate. The district will deteriorate even faster if you remove the higher performing kids to a charter because that will make the test scores even worse. Also many don't wish to cross a war zone to get home at night unless they can work where they live and never have to leave it.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:53 PM
 
119 posts, read 299,998 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmollhag View Post
If you read my post I said I don't think flossmoor would go that way because the section 8 wouldn't even cover their mortgages. I realize it is a desirable place for rent right now, but as surrounding areas get worse (and they will) it won't continue to be unless flossmoor receives some sort of employment or boost to its economy that's unique onto itself. That is what Hyde Park is, an island. Also this is nothing like Atlas Shrugged. It is merely a question of numbers. Most people move to the suburbs for good public schools and safety. Very few will buy in this suburb if the school district continues to deteriorate. The district will deteriorate even faster if you remove the higher performing kids to a charter because that will make the test scores even worse. Also many don't wish to cross a war zone to get home at night unless they can work where they live and never have to leave it.
But aren't the rents a lot cheaper in some other nearby middle class areas. For example, rents for homes in the nearby northwest indiana suburb of Munster appear to start around $1300. About a $1000 cheaper than the starting price for home rentals in flossmoor. What makes Flossmoor so ideal for this type of scenario? Versus other cheaper middle class neighborhoods. Just curious. Because this discussion has been had for years. Even during the recession. And it appears that Flossmoor is not going in the direction that a lot of posters predicted several years back. And other nearby areas that were touted as Flossmoor alternatives don't seem nearly as promising right now.

Last edited by gregbuck; 07-23-2014 at 06:03 PM..
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:21 PM
 
36 posts, read 75,608 times
Reputation: 30
because that area is in Indiana and so can't accept Illinois section 8 vouchers...but I am not saying this is just a southern suburbs problem, this is also going to be a problem in some western suburbs as well. It also hasn't fully materialized and I don't think communities are going to respond to this problem the way they need to until it is too late. Its just that the southern suburbs are going to be the hardest hit because not only are they going to experience this problem with the rest of the middle class/working class suburbs, they also have a history of high taxes, political pork and corruption, and are in an area that is further from more white collar employers than the west side.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:08 AM
 
36 posts, read 75,608 times
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I do realize that section 8 is a national program but it involves state funding and there is a lot of paperwork/head ache involved in crossing state lines. Also the people moving wish to remain close to the family/friends they are leaving behind. Even though Munster isn't that much further out, psychologically it seems further away. Remember the people using these vouchers don't consider themselves urban blight, they consider themselves hardworking people who are trying to escape the violence. Some of them are. The problem is they bring their issues with them because contrary to popular belief crime cannot be the fault of inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people, people do and neighborhoods aren't dangerous, the criminals that live/frequent there are.

Last edited by bmollhag; 07-24-2014 at 02:31 AM..
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:56 PM
 
172 posts, read 316,198 times
Reputation: 76
Check out frankfort. It's the hinsdale of the southwest. Schools are excellent comparable to some western suburbs schools. It's growing, businesses coming and new home construction has picked up a lot if steam.
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