Moving to the Homewood/Flossmoor area (Chicago, Tinley Park: 2014, for rent, credit score)

[scotty40]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The number of businesses retail type opening / closing are not as big a deal as the issues of tax burden. Towns even as nice as Hinsdale have all kinds of under utilized retail in their core. It does not really impact the total flow of revenue as the landlords that own those buildings are mostly still paying taxes and just messing with tenants and local regulartion they may not like regarding service oriented vs sales tax generating retail...

Total home affordability is not really the only issue, as that is strongly biased towards the HOME SHOPPERS doing comparisons of what happens with the combined mortgage / tax / insurance payment. That is something of red herring crafted by folks working to sell real estate (I know, I used to do that too...).

The bigger issue is just the magnitude of the tax bills. When existing home owners see tax bills that are already quite large continue to grow that likely will have undesirable negative outcomes. Folks on fixed income will be forced to sell. When they don't get acceptable offers they are forced to cut their asking price. The reduced selling prices result in a EVEN HIGHER taxes. It is a spiral of doom...

I have not looked in detail at the overall spending of the schools and other units of government in the HF area but my sense is they have not yet gotten to the point where there are huge cuts looming. Should that happen OR HF get burned by corrupt insiders looting the public till (which sadly has really hurt more than a few south suburbs...) the scenario could get very bad very fast. And for folks that say "that COULD happen anywhere" I would say: Not really. See, in many of the nicer towns the fact is that the Village President is a volunteer, they have a regular job as an attorney or some other high paying prestigious career that they would not jeopardize by skimming from the local government. AND even if they did go on bender and scam the town or school, the better funded units of governments in affluent areas probably have a very low cost insurance bond to cover such things, they have AAA ratings on their existing debt and could borrow much more at very low cost because they have so much property wealth to backstops any debt.

It is just really really hard to see any solutions unless there are some major shifts in statewide policies and big changes in employment trends...

The Village of Homewood has an AA rating, Flossmoor has an AA+. The school districts are all AAA (including HF). All elected positions are volunteer. Ironically, the mayor of Flossmoor owns a law firm, which qualifies us as one of the "nicer towns" using the logic above. Contrast that to Country Club Hills, where the mayor is pulling a 6 figure salary to manage an under 20K pop. village.

I agree, the tax burden drives housing prices down. The spiral has a floor, check this out- https://www.redfin.com/IL/Flossmoor/.../home/12872699
(this is about the most extreme example I can find). Sold in 2006 for over $1 mil, has a $36K tax bill. Owners were in way over the head, couldn't afford upkeep let alone the complete gut rehab the place needs (it has an original, 1920's bathroom in all 5 bedrooms, with vintage plumbing to match). Can't sell the place, bank takes over. Because of the renovations needed, it ends up being a cash only sale (at $325,000). All that being said, the new owners paid $325,000 cash and can afford the $3k a month in taxes, plus the gut rehab the place needs (which is likely more expensive than the purchase price). That income/asset level is likely higher than the buyer who bought it in 2006. You could make the "catching a falling knife" argument here, but the fact is that these houses continue to bring in buyers with relative affluence which has a huge impact on the community as a whole.

[chet everett]

The details are important, like I said, if the towns have volunteers that are not going fleece the public that is an important factor.
You can pull up the details on the "property value per student" via the classic IIRC site and there are enormous differences even between towns in DuPage Co - having high value offices, malls, really gives some towns a kind of financial "backstop" that is much more solid than other towns with more modest ability to raise taxes...

[urza216]

Originally Posted by OccidentExpress

Homewood is what it is: a changing neighborhood that is rapidly turning into middle-class black enclave. I have my doubts as to whether the newer residents will be able to shoulder the hefty property tax burden in the long term, which puts it at greater risk than the western suburbs that are typically recommended on this forum.

Homewood isn't "rapidly" changing in any way, shape or form. While Homewood is actually about as diverse as Oak Park, it still has the perception of being a very "white" neighborhood... Or at least to folks down here. Maybe not Chicagolanders living 45 minutes away...

[Naper_Tiger]

Originally Posted by urza216

Homewood isn't "rapidly" changing in any way, shape or form. While Homewood is actually about as diverse as Oak Park, it still has the perception of being a very "white" neighborhood... Or at least to folks down here. Maybe not Chicagolanders living 45 minutes away...

The percentage of Black residents in Homewood increased from 18.2% in 2000 to 34.1% in 2010. The percentage of White residents decreased from 77.4% in 2000 to 59.5% in 2010. Homewood seems to be "rapidly" changing according to those numbers.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by Naper_Tiger

The percentage of Black residents in Homewood increased from 18.2% in 2000 to 34.1% in 2010. The percentage of White residents decreased from 77.4% in 2000 to 59.5% in 2010. Homewood seems to be "rapidly" changing according to those numbers.

Makes sense. As blacks become more upwardly mobile, they got to live somewhere. It's not "white flight" at all. I have literally never heard anyone complain about this neighorhorhbood to the point of thinking about fleeing. But it is true that there are more middle class blacks these days. And they got to live somewhere... They move here where it isn't racist as hell like some other Chicago suburbs.

Note that I said "heard" not "read on City-Data".

[urza216]

White flight has ALREADY HAPPENED in the south suburbs. It's not ever gonna be total like city neighborhoods.

[gregbuck]

Well, in the case of flossmoor. Property taxes are among the highest in suburban Chicago. With Flossmoor having a median property tax assessment of $9,502.12 per residential property. Which is slightly higher than more affluent suburbs such as Oak Brook ($9,446.10), Burr Ridge ($9,484.92), and Northbrook ($9,032.52) . Chicago real estate news, data and statistics, home sales and real estate listings | Chicago .

While property values in flossmoor are in the bottom third of all chicago suburbs. Median home values in flossmoor are $206,100 according to zillow. Nowhere near Oak Brook ($684,800), Burr Ridge ($629,500), and Northbrook ($516,100).

No other chicago suburb comes close to flossmoor in terms of median property values being so low in comparison to it's extremely high property taxes. Olympia Fields comes in a distant second.

[4122]

Luckily, Homewood is way lower in property taxes according to the list. It's crazy how Flossmoor taxes are almost as much as I pay in the North shore.

[leroy217]

I did notice the area that I am moving to seems to be pretty stable and nice. There is a large park across the street and Lions park is right across 183rd. I'm not sure how much nicer Homewood was, but it still seems as if the area is desirable.
Some people seem to think that different ethnicities bring down the property value. I'm new to homebuying so don't know how factual that is. Everything Chet was saying sunk in, but an area can be nice if the neighborhoods can work together as a whole.
Has the reduced funding in the HF school district made the schools worse than ever?

[gregbuck]

Drastically raising property taxes will in itself economically destabilize almost any community regardless of racial makeup. There is no factual basis for saying different races moving to an area will lower property values and cause an area to decline. Flossmoor is still a great community. Educated residents, high income per capita, low crime rate. The excessive property tax increases in flossmoor has greatly contributed to the higher rate of foreclosures. And is probably weighing down the median sales price by at least 100k if not more. For the average single family home in flossmoor. There are plenty of stable middle class and affluent suburban neighborhoods in other parts of the united states. In which blacks and hispanics make up a large percentage of the residents. Los Angeles has a lot of affluent suburban areas that are largely black or hispanic. Ladera Heights comes to mind. Median home value of $1,000,900 according to zillow. The median property taxes for residential property in ladera heights is $4,270.99. That's in line with other nearby affluent LA suburbs with similar property valuations.