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I appreciate your candor. You must realize that when people are making the biggest financial decision of that lives that will also likely have implications for their children's future there is not much room for humor.
But maybe a little...
I drove by the house you mentioned. It is pretty extreme. Looks like the "beverly hills meets a granite quarry" . I might grab a picture if I can avoid being spotted by Jethro or Elly May...
Last edited by chet everett; 04-30-2008 at 05:04 PM..
It's funny, all the Hinsdale bashing comes from people with chips on their shoulders for whatever reason, even disguised as humor like yours. Same goes for the north shore bashers, I'm guessing. It is so easy to stereotype and hate, and me being a guy who used to live in the LT district but wanted better for his kids schoolwise (no offense to highly intelligent people like you (?) from LT, of course !!) , I now live in Hinsdale.
The true pains in life are people like yourself who peg people and entire communities like you do, or hate their bosses or are jealous of people who worked hard and achieved and are bitter pills and judgmental, but your coming clean is refreshing. It's amazing too, since La Grange has streets like Blackstone which are richer than many parts of Hinsdale. If you really want to see teardowns at their worst, try strolling down Lawn and Grand Avenues in the Forest Hills section of Western Springs, which happens to be in the LT district. Huge hospital like houses next to small bi-levels. It's also funny that you pick on one house out of a whole town which you think is ostentatious. Overall, the teardowns in Hinsdale pretty much tasteful, and the teardowns replaced housing that was uncared for for the most part and needed replacement.
I can't tell you how great it is to meet people in Hinsdale who have transferred from diverse places like Toronto, London, and Cleveland who have a great outlook on life, and lack the petty small sniping that people like yourself breed. I have no stereotypes for LaGrange and University Village, other than their people just trying to do their best, just like anywhere else. All I can say, is that those places have at least one idiot as a present or former resident.
You've also gotta remember I used to live in La Grange, where hating Hinsdale is an old and hallowed tradition. I mean, LT vs. HC is not just a rivalry - its contempt for an entire way of life! (see, there I go again.......smack)
If its any consolation, I also enjoy lampooning Wicker Park, to which I see more than a few passing similarities to Hinsdale, despite their being polar opposites.
So please, no harm intended, and if somebody wants to skewer La Grange (or University Village, where I live now), fire away. I won't be the least bit offended. Hell, I may even join in.[/quote]
Chet,
You seem to have an excellent grasp on the western suburbs. I live in Kenilworth and have organized opposition to a plan to nominate our entire village to the National Register (just like Riverside).
Could you tell me more about what (in your opinion) has happened in Riverside in the 30 years since it became a Historic District. Have home values kept pace with neighboring communities? Have families stopped moving there? What has happened to the downtown area (my understanding is that it has stagnated badly)?
I'll be blunt, I am looking for any information that can help me make the case that placing an entire municipality on the National Register is a bad idea.
Anything you can tell me would be gratefully received, including if you know anyone else who could speak to me on or off the record about these issues.
WOW -- seems very extreme. I don't know how much harm/good comes the NHR stuff, Riverside's ups and downs have a whole lot more to do with the non-uniformity it has. There are some awful junky homes just a stones throw away from the mansions. This makes the junky homes unnecessarily expensive and makes the mansions less than desirable. Not good for either.
The downtown of Riverside suffers from utter inaccessibility -- literally without GPS people even a mile away would NEVER venture in for fear of getting hopelessly lost. They have some minor retail in town today but it is never had even as much of a business district as Wilmette or Winnetka. Standards and such are good, but without a means to support those lofty goals the residents end up footing a very high bill to keep things "pretty".
Home values in Riverside are all over the map. You have some places that are really special homes that cannot be duplicated anywhere that are worth whatever premium asked and then you have places that are owned by landlords/speculators/investors that are not that astute. When they hit a rough patch sometimes they have to blow the place out and typically it gets bought by a friend of a current Riverside resident that really can't afford the up keep of some of these places. Not good, but at least there is not any sort of mass turn over. The taxes are oppressive and very non-uniform. People that know the system can get some nice breaks and fix up their place without getting whacked for taxes all at once, but as those breaks expire the new tax bills are just too much. Unless you have an "art patron" type mindset you pretty much have to sell. The prices on nice places hold up pretty well, but the prices on smaller plainer places are not all that stellar. There is not as much tear down activity and that has moderated gains on the"small house big lot" situation, but some of that is also fear of the DesPlaines River/Salt Creek and the flooding that could happen.
I don't know that Kenilworth would be a good comparo to Riverside in other ways either -- the schools in RB are well liked by many, but nothing like New Trier and the eastern border of Riverside is far different than anything near Kennilworth, even Highwood...
A couple notes from someone who lives in Riverside:
I haven't seen a lot of "junky" homes in Riverside. Modest homes, yes. Homes that could do with some upkeep, sure. But "junky" seems pushing it. What I do see, regretably, are too many homes that have been for sale for too long, where basic yard work has stopped, and its becoming more noticable now that Spring is here. The village is fairly good about coming down on people about this, but I suspect some of the main eyesores are owned through trusts or other devices that make ownership (and responsibility for mowing the damn lawn) difficult to ascertain.
As far as downtown Riverside being inaccessible, I would submit that it is really the only part of Riverside that is accessible to outsiders--the downtown area can be entered by 2 of the few straight streets in Riverside--Burlington (coming from Harlem) and Forest (coming from First Avenue). I do agree with your inference that the downtown needs a boost. I'm not sure what would work, however, as Riverside is unlikely to ever be a retail destination (and most residents, including myself, want to keep it that way). Its not a ghost town, and there has been some development lately (and promises of some more to come). Still, I think we just need to face facts that it will always be a small shopping strip designed to provide limited goods and services to the residents of Riverside (which is, as I understand it, the intent of the orignal Olmsted plan).
I don't find the taxes oppressive--in fact, I think we pay less than other similarly situated communities. I'd be curious to see a source that compare tax bills for properties in Riverside, LaGrange, Hinsdale and Western Springs.
Agreed that RB is no New Trier, but few schools are. As far as your reference to the "eastern border of Riverside," that would be Berwyn (as I know you know). You make it sound like we butt up against North Lawndale.
With respect to the question about the landmark designation, I suspect it its impact on property values has been minimal either way. Riverside has consistently been a stable community where people who grew up there often return. Property values have kept pace with the local average (likely surpassing it over the last 10 years or so), and families are continuing to move in. I do think that the landmark designation has worked to preserve our green spaces, and maintain the character of the village. I'm quite sure a developer would take a different view.
I tried to be honest as I can. I spend A LOT of time in and around Riverside. I don't disagree with anything you said -- all my comments were in the context of how Riverside is different than Kenilworth. Perhaps "junky" is not the least biased word, but honestly I've seen MANY small not-so-pretty homes with perhaps 3 bedrooms and 1 ba that could use some serious exterior maintenance that are paying around $6-$7K in property taxes. In other towns those places would have been snatched up and torn down or massively renovated. Not saying that is good or bad, just that is what I have seen in the other areas.
The vast majority of "greenspace" in Riverside is built-in with the layout of the streets and parkways -- no teardowns could/would change that. Any preservation ordinance only reinforce the defacto variations in lot size and configuration.
In general the lot sizes in a town like La Grange are much more uniform, and smaller on average. Ditto for most of Western Springs. The shear number of of tax bills that might be in the $6-7 range is not all that much less, but those properties are in general newer, have more renovations and represent lower tax bill for the house your are getting. Similarly there are plenty of tax bills in all the areas that are double, triple if not more, but in Riverside that tax may be a house with much 'character' but not much in the way of modern appointments, while in WS or LaGrange it is almost certainly a house that is not all that much less distinctive/period looking with a whole bunch of updates if not total new construction. The restrictions have made it harder to update things in a cost effective fashion...
My comment about Berwyn was mostly in regard to the schools and dining/entertainment options -- not a matter of safety. There is a big drop off among almost people in the desirability of going to Morton and the Berwyn schools vs RB/Riverside schools and the "nightlife" is worlds different too. Kenilworth is mostly surrounded by towns that are not a whole lot less desirable than it is.
There were a number of teardowns within the past 5 years or so --of the 20 or so houses on my street, I'd say half were built within the past 5 years (no mine).
I guess taxes (or the perception of what you get for your taxes) are relative. I own a moderately sized house on a very large lot. We also looked in LaGrange (a town I like very much) and could have, for about the same price, bought a larger house on a considerably smaller lot. I went for less house, more land. I do, of course, worry about what my tax bill would do if I added another room on the ground floor and a master bedroom upstairs.
I understand what you mean now about Berwyn. Oddly enough, for many Riversiders, Berwyn is where the closest entertainment options are. There are a few bars there that seem to draw a very heavy Riverside crowd. Of course, 20-some years ago, the real "entertainment" options were across the river in Lyons...
My comment about Berwyn was mostly in regard to the schools and dining/entertainment options -- not a matter of safety. There is a big drop off among almost people in the desirability of going to Morton and the Berwyn schools vs RB/Riverside schools and the "nightlife" is worlds different too. Kenilworth is mostly surrounded by towns that are not a whole lot less desirable than it is.
Why we be dissing on Berwyn's entertainment options up in here? Harlem Ave. Lounge, Olive or Twist and Double Olive Bar martini bars, James Joyce Irish Pub, Cigars and Stripes comedy club, LaNotte Italian restaurant, La Espanolia tapas bar, a new Thai restaurant coming soon (on Roosevelt), Michael Anthony's and Salerno's pizzerias, Lalo's, Mi Terra, 16th Street Theater, and, well....I could go on. Suffice it to say we brothers do ok in North Berwyndale Then of course, if that's too boring, there is Forest Park's Madison St. and Oak Park's Lake St. within a few miles of Riverside. Or just jump on the train and be in the Loop in 20 minutes. I don't know, maybe it's me but I'd find Riverside to be better than La Grange in terms of entertainment options. All a matter of opinion I suppose.
I was not dissing Berwyn, it is just very different than the white table oriented places on the north shore that people in Kennilworth would have nearby. I believe the growth of these places in Berwyn is directly traceable to the restrictions that Riverside has had. Riverside has had a resturant or two, but they are smaller and seem to be less long lived, again I suspect due to the difficulty of running a business there...
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Bingo !!
All I can say, is that those places have at least one idiot as a present or former resident. 
Harlem Ave. Lounge, Olive or Twist and Double Olive Bar martini bars, James Joyce Irish Pub, Cigars and Stripes comedy club, LaNotte Italian restaurant, La Espanolia tapas bar, a new Thai restaurant coming soon (on Roosevelt), Michael Anthony's and Salerno's pizzerias, Lalo's, Mi Terra, 16th Street Theater, and, well....I could go on. Suffice it to say we brothers do ok in North Berwyndale 
Then of course, if that's too boring, there is Forest Park's Madison St. and Oak Park's Lake St. within a few miles of Riverside. Or just jump on the train and be in the Loop in 20 minutes. I don't know, maybe it's me but I'd find Riverside to be better than La Grange in terms of entertainment options. All a matter of opinion I suppose.
