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Old 07-10-2017, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,730,345 times
Reputation: 14786

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Well, at least I know where to go when i want to move next! Apparently, there's several Folks on here can move me for beer and pocket change, lol! I'm definitely going to take you guys up on that next time I move because it cost me a more than you're reporting just to move 12 miles from Berwyn to Chicago.

Anyway, a typical real estate commission is 3% to the buyer's agent and 3% to your agent. So if you have a $300,000 property, you're looking at $18k right there alone, regardless of how many beer buddies you have ready to haul your stuff for pizza. Now, I'm sure our frugal transplants will retort that they just stuck a sign from Ace Hardware on the front lawn and sold the house in a day. Whatever. Most people have to hire a realtor and pay commissions.

There's also title fees, attorney fees, transfer stamps, and in some cities even a tax for you to get out. Berwyn charges $10 for every $1,000 in sale price for one example I know firsthand. On our $300,000 example that's another $3,000 out the window.

It's human nature to understate the cost of moving. It probably isn't intentional. You probably just forgot. But my point stands that it's pretty expensive to do and it would take a long time to recoup that cost.


Re-read my post. We all know how sales commission on a home works. What I said..... is that commission really isn't a "cost to move" especially if you are selling your home at a premium and making a profit off it. That was our case. Others maybe not. Nonetheless, there are many factors of why one moves. What is right for you might not be right for others.


And I didn't forget how much it cost us to move because it was only a year ago. We have friends and family who helped so NO it didn't cost us thousands of dollars as you claim, yet I suppose it could. If you would rather stay in Illinois for the rest of your life in fear of losing money due to moving costs that's your choice. There are many of us who don't feel the same! We feel that if we stay in Illinois we will be the one's losing! I'm saving $8k a year in just property taxes alone, so I think the cost to move was worth it! Oh btw, the $8k I'm saving this year on property taxes paid for the cruise I'm taking my family on in November. Bon Voyage, Illinois!

 
Old 07-10-2017, 09:07 PM
 
121 posts, read 175,553 times
Reputation: 171
I have considered it but I'm a transplant and I'm not tied down to the state like many others. I originally left for Chicago due to the affordability compared to back east but in the past 5 years the sales tax has increased to one of the highest in the nation, property taxes keep increasing (now ranks as 1st or 2nd in the nation), many of the highways collect tolls which is another tax, soda tax and now the income tax increased. I understand the past rate of 3.75% was one of the lowest in the nation but Illinois doesn't provide much of a standard deduction like many other states nor is there a progressive tax bracket, thus, the 3.75% ends up hitting lower and middle class wage earners just as much as some other states with higher rates. Now at 4.9% the situation will worsen.

Problem is I don't like the alternatives in the Midwest other than Chicagoland area so I don't think there are many viable options other than maybe NWI. But public transportation is horrible compared to the suburbs in the Chicagoland area.
 
Old 07-10-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,455,878 times
Reputation: 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
Re-read my post. We all know how sales commission on a home works. What I said..... is that commission really isn't a "cost to move" especially if you are selling your home at a premium and making a profit off it. That was our case. Others maybe not. Nonetheless, there are many factors of why one moves. What is right for you might not be right for others.


And I didn't forget how much it cost us to move because it was only a year ago. We have friends and family who helped so NO it didn't cost us thousands of dollars as you claim, yet I suppose it could. If you would rather stay in Illinois for the rest of your life in fear of losing money due to moving costs that's your choice. There are many of us who don't feel the same! We feel that if we stay in Illinois we will be the one's losing! I'm saving $8k a year in just property taxes alone, so I think the cost to move was worth it! Oh btw, the $8k I'm saving this year on property taxes paid for the cruise I'm taking my family on in November. Bon Voyage, Illinois!
Well, it's wonderful that you like it and that you feel your move to the exburbs was beneficial. I heard similar glowing praises about Plainfield and Bolingbrook when I lived in Berwyn. It seemed very important to them to let us know how great everything was out there and to remind us how bad it was where we were at every single opportunity. Amazing how human nature repeats itself. And amazing how old I'm getting to be seeing the exact same thing in a different context!

Anyway, not that we're getting tired of hearing about it or anything but you should consider posting more on the Indiana forum.
 
Old 07-10-2017, 10:14 PM
 
435 posts, read 430,514 times
Reputation: 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Well, it's wonderful that you like it and that you feel your move to the exburbs was beneficial. I heard similar glowing praises about Plainfield and Bolingbrook when I lived in Berwyn. It seemed very important to them to let us know how great everything was out there and to remind us how bad it was where we were at every single opportunity. Amazing how human nature repeats itself. And amazing how old I'm getting to be seeing the exact same thing in a different context!

Anyway, not that we're getting tired of hearing about it or anything but you should consider posting more on the Indiana forum.
Whether you want to admit it or not, Northwest Indiana is a suburban area of Chicago. This is the Chicago Suburbs forum and discussions pertaining to NWI are appropriate here too. Especially in this type of discussion.

As I said before your points about closing costs and commissions are valid to consider if someone is thinking about moving anywhere (in-state or out-of-state).

I would like to point out that if a person chooses NWI vs. a move to a Southern State at least it is a WASH for the Chicagoland region. It is better to keep that person in the region than lose them altogether. We are interconnected. If NWI is able to absorb some people who would altogether leave that is a good thing for IL.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,455,878 times
Reputation: 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvr789 View Post
Whether you want to admit it or not, Northwest Indiana is a suburban area of Chicago. This is the Chicago Suburbs forum and discussions pertaining to NWI are appropriate here too. Especially in this type of discussion.

As I said before your points about closing costs and commissions are valid to consider if someone is thinking about moving anywhere (in-state or out-of-state).

I would like to point out that if a person chooses NWI vs. a move to a Southern State at least it is a WASH for the Chicagoland region. It is better to keep that person in the region than lose them altogether. We are interconnected. If NWI is able to absorb some people who would altogether leave that is a good thing for IL.
I would generally agree it is a suburban area of Chicago. I don't think I disputed that. Anyway, the problem is that I'm pretty certain from experience (having seen this before) that many of those who have been moving to NWI are doing so for reasons which go beyond lower taxes, and would like only people like themselves to move there. Perhaps that's natural but when an area is affordable, as NWI is, it's going to be attractive to lower and moderate income families too. So some of the people who are touting things now may not react well as the demographics change. And of course when lower income families come, services like schools require more resources, so taxes and test scores might not stay where they are today.

Right now, the South Side and south suburbs are the poorest in the Chicagoland area. And life on the South Side and in some suburbs now is becoming unbearable, as we all know from watching the news. So it's going to be interesting to see how the demographics sort themselves out over the next decade or so.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,730,345 times
Reputation: 14786
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
I would generally agree it is a suburban area of Chicago. I don't think I disputed that. Anyway, the problem is that I'm pretty certain from experience (having seen this before) that many of those who have been moving to NWI are doing so for reasons which go beyond lower taxes, and would like only people like themselves to move there. Perhaps that's natural but when an area is affordable, as NWI is, it's going to be attractive to lower and moderate income families too. So some of the people who are touting things now may not react well as the demographics change. And of course when lower income families come, services like schools require more resources, so taxes and test scores might not stay where they are today.

Right now, the South Side and south suburbs are the poorest in the Chicagoland area. And life on the South Side and in some suburbs now is becoming unbearable, as we all know from watching the news. So it's going to be interesting to see how the demographics sort themselves out over the next decade or so.


Thanks for suggesting I post elsewhere, LOL! I post on a lot of different forums that I have an interest in. I post here because I still have a lot of ties to Illinois, plus I can offer my experience of why I left. Furthermore, I understand that your point of thinking everyone from the poorer South suburbs of Chicago will relocate to NW Indiana because of the lower COL, I think you're probably wrong on that. First off, in the Dyer, Schererville, St. John area there are very few rentals which forces individuals to buy. Second, Illinois hands out government assistance like it's candy and Indiana doesn't, so why would an individual risk losing their benefits? And third, I believe I said this earlier, most of the people that I have met ARE NOT moving here from the South suburbs or Chicago, but rather more are coming from the S.W. suburbs and other regions of Illinois, plus other states. The ONLY individuals I have met that have come here from the South Suburbs came from Lansing and Homewood and that was do to white flight there.

As far as what will happen to NW Indiana's future? No one can say, just like no one can say for sure what will happen in Illinois. I can tell you however that as of right now Indiana is fiscally sound whereas Illinois is not. I don't plan on Indiana being my "forever" home. We will probably move again in about 15 years when my kids are grown and we retire. We will most likely move South, but as for now I'm happy with my choice of moving here as you are happy with where you live. As it should be!
 
Old 07-11-2017, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,455,878 times
Reputation: 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
Thanks for suggesting I post elsewhere, LOL! I post on a lot of different forums that I have an interest in. I post here because I still have a lot of ties to Illinois, plus I can offer my experience of why I left. Furthermore, I understand that your point of thinking everyone from the poorer South suburbs of Chicago will relocate to NW Indiana because of the lower COL, I think you're probably wrong on that. First off, in the Dyer, Schererville, St. John area there are very few rentals which forces individuals to buy. Second, Illinois hands out government assistance like it's candy and Indiana doesn't, so why would an individual risk losing their benefits? And third, I believe I said this earlier, most of the people that I have met ARE NOT moving here from the South suburbs or Chicago, but rather more are coming from the S.W. suburbs and other regions of Illinois, plus other states. The ONLY individuals I have met that have come here from the South Suburbs came from Lansing and Homewood and that was do to white flight there.

As far as what will happen to NW Indiana's future? No one can say, just like no one can say for sure what will happen in Illinois. I can tell you however that as of right now Indiana is fiscally sound whereas Illinois is not. I don't plan on Indiana being my "forever" home. We will probably move again in about 15 years when my kids are grown and we retire. We will most likely move South, but as for now I'm happy with my choice of moving here as you are happy with where you live. As it should be!
What specific benefits would they lose by moving to IN? And why do you assume that all lower income people are on public assistance? Or that they are renters?
 
Old 07-11-2017, 10:45 AM
 
4 posts, read 2,636 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
I will be the first to admit that our state and City are an embarrassing mess. But think logically. The average professional household move costs over $12k, and that's from an article from 2012, so it's probably higher now. Add that to the real estate commissions you're going to pay to sell your home, coupled with other expenses associated with a move - new furniture, painting the old house to get ready for sale, painting the new one to suit your tastes, etc. - and you're probably talking $25-30k to move out of Illinois.

So if your income taxes went up $1k per year with this new tax increase, your decision will have made financial sense in 25-30 years. And that's ignoring the higher mortgage you might incur in following the flock to high desirability area (Austin anyone?), Or your lower salary due to a "regional adjustment" (hello Nashville!). And unless the warm sun and greener grass makes the flock magically grow smarter, they will probably start electing progressives into office, which means that places like Charlotte, which currently approximately resemble the Christian ideal of heaven by most accounts, might very well end up with the same issues as Chicago in 10-15 years.

IMHO, it will be smarter for voters to focus on what went wrong and try to fix it rather than flee.
I very much agree with this. I grew up in IL, went to school in Boston, and have been in the Washington, D.C. area for the past 15 years. We are now moving back to IL - just in time for the income tax hike

Yes, moving interstate is VERY expensive. We are moving to be closer to all of our family, and to have more seasons, more moderate people (where we live now is EXTREMELY liberal), and summers where one can actually go outdoors!

You can complain about Chicago and Illinois, and there are some unique issues the city, Cook County, and the state are facing now. But unique issues call for problem solving. I've lived in several eastern seaboard cities and have friends and family all along the east coast. The fact is, every municipality, county, and state has its problems.

To give you a taste, in Maryland, the state AND the county BOTH assess income tax; our state/county income taxes combined are 8% every year. That does not include Federal income tax nor property tax. And we don't make much money compared to the many households here that have combined incomes over $250,000 - and they sadly still feel stretched!

In both the Maryland and Virginia suburban counties of D.C., all municipal control and services are at the county level. Living in one community or another is really based on how much home you can afford, and that will dictate what sorts of students and families populate your local schools; otherwise, your "community" doesn't have much sway over its schools. The police have to meet the needs of the entire county, because there are no village/town/local suburban police forces.

In addition, the D.C. area has been inundated with people in the last decade or so, and only expects more; yet they have really done nothing to accommodate this in terms of housing, schools (quickly becoming overcrowded), or public transit. In fact, the Metro (D.C.'s "L" - but with vastly less service areas/stops) is CUTTING service even as more people and wealth is coming into the area, and the trains are used by many professionals - it is in no way limited to working class.

Also, the traffic and commute here is horrendous. People live far away to gain affordability, because the sprawl has become awful. It is NOT unusual to hear of people with a 1.5-2 hour commute each way into D.C., living as far south as close to Richmond, VA, or as far west as West Virginia, or as far north as Delaware/Pennsylvania area.

Finally, no matter how you feel about this issue politically, a number of counties in the D.C. area and D.C. itself are sanctuaries, and the public services - which despite the growing wealth, are poorly managed and totally stressed already - cannot keep up. The schools are being overwhelmed and crime has increased, despite many people simply coming for a better life; and the counties are essentially turning a blind eye out of political correctness.

In sum, while the D.C. area continues to be lauded for things, including many jobs which to outsiders seem high paying, the cost of living, and the income and property taxes combined, makes those salaries disappear quickly! Also, forget the private schools in D.C. area - Catholic schools alone are DOUBLE the cost of those in the Chicago area, and non-parochial private schools as well as some of the tonier Catholic high schools are the cost of college tuition (no exaggeration - $28-40k per year, per student).

You might say, "but silly, I'm planning to move to (fill in the blank), not the D.C. area!" I can agree that there are cheaper places with lower taxes than D.C. where one could relocate from Chicago. But I think we can also agree that places that sound like a great escape now are not a big secret; many people are thinking the same thing, as evidenced by this thread. And most likely, those places may share D.C. area's problem of wanting more people for more revenue, but otherwise are woefully unprepared for the influx to meet residents' demands/needs. They will be forced to increase services to meet demand, and therefore increase taxes; cost of living also goes up because more businesses arrive and feel they can charge more for those goods and services. This is exactly what has happened in the D.C. area over the past 15 years. It did not used to be unreasonably expensive to live here, just a short time ago! As an alternative example, I know of friends moving to North Carolina, especially in the research triangle, who now are saying the same thing; more people are moving, so it's getting more crowded, worse traffic, costs going up, taxes going up, etc. Same drill.

IMHO, whereas I think Chicagoland's woes, while there is room to get worse, actually can improve drastically on the horizon after hitting "rock bottom," other places to which you might want to escape are only on the verge of facing a lot of these problems! So, look before you leap - you could be trading in "it can only improve from here" for "the problems are only starting now..." Friendly food for thought!
 
Old 07-11-2017, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,455,878 times
Reputation: 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty23 View Post
I very much agree with this. I grew up in IL, went to school in Boston, and have been in the Washington, D.C. area for the past 15 years. We are now moving back to IL - just in time for the income tax hike

Yes, moving interstate is VERY expensive. We are moving to be closer to all of our family, and to have more seasons, more moderate people (where we live now is EXTREMELY liberal), and summers where one can actually go outdoors!

You can complain about Chicago and Illinois, and there are some unique issues the city, Cook County, and the state are facing now. But unique issues call for problem solving. I've lived in several eastern seaboard cities and have friends and family all along the east coast. The fact is, every municipality, county, and state has its problems.

To give you a taste, in Maryland, the state AND the county BOTH assess income tax; our state/county income taxes combined are 8% every year. That does not include Federal income tax nor property tax. And we don't make much money compared to the many households here that have combined incomes over $250,000 - and they sadly still feel stretched!

In both the Maryland and Virginia suburban counties of D.C., all municipal control and services are at the county level. Living in one community or another is really based on how much home you can afford, and that will dictate what sorts of students and families populate your local schools; otherwise, your "community" doesn't have much sway over its schools. The police have to meet the needs of the entire county, because there are no village/town/local suburban police forces.

In addition, the D.C. area has been inundated with people in the last decade or so, and only expects more; yet they have really done nothing to accommodate this in terms of housing, schools (quickly becoming overcrowded), or public transit. In fact, the Metro (D.C.'s "L" - but with vastly less service areas/stops) is CUTTING service even as more people and wealth is coming into the area, and the trains are used by many professionals - it is in no way limited to working class.

Also, the traffic and commute here is horrendous. People live far away to gain affordability, because the sprawl has become awful. It is NOT unusual to hear of people with a 1.5-2 hour commute each way into D.C., living as far south as close to Richmond, VA, or as far west as West Virginia, or as far north as Delaware/Pennsylvania area.

Finally, no matter how you feel about this issue politically, a number of counties in the D.C. area and D.C. itself are sanctuaries, and the public services - which despite the growing wealth, are poorly managed and totally stressed already - cannot keep up. The schools are being overwhelmed and crime has increased, despite many people simply coming for a better life; and the counties are essentially turning a blind eye out of political correctness.

In sum, while the D.C. area continues to be lauded for things, including many jobs which to outsiders seem high paying, the cost of living, and the income and property taxes combined, makes those salaries disappear quickly! Also, forget the private schools in D.C. area - Catholic schools alone are DOUBLE the cost of those in the Chicago area, and non-parochial private schools as well as some of the tonier Catholic high schools are the cost of college tuition (no exaggeration - $28-40k per year, per student).

You might say, "but silly, I'm planning to move to (fill in the blank), not the D.C. area!" I can agree that there are cheaper places with lower taxes than D.C. where one could relocate from Chicago. But I think we can also agree that places that sound like a great escape now are not a big secret; many people are thinking the same thing, as evidenced by this thread. And most likely, those places may share D.C. area's problem of wanting more people for more revenue, but otherwise are woefully unprepared for the influx to meet residents' demands/needs. They will be forced to increase services to meet demand, and therefore increase taxes; cost of living also goes up because more businesses arrive and feel they can charge more for those goods and services. This is exactly what has happened in the D.C. area over the past 15 years. It did not used to be unreasonably expensive to live here, just a short time ago! As an alternative example, I know of friends moving to North Carolina, especially in the research triangle, who now are saying the same thing; more people are moving, so it's getting more crowded, worse traffic, costs going up, taxes going up, etc. Same drill.

IMHO, whereas I think Chicagoland's woes, while there is room to get worse, actually can improve drastically on the horizon after hitting "rock bottom," other places to which you might want to escape are only on the verge of facing a lot of these problems! So, look before you leap - you could be trading in "it can only improve from here" for "the problems are only starting now..." Friendly food for thought!
Reading between the lines of our Indiana cheerleader's post, it isn't really difficult to ascertain her attitude towards minorities. And it's very hard to isolate yourself among those with your own personal ideology unless you can afford to pay a lot of money to buy into an upscale area.

NWI is not a particularly creative choice - no offense to anyone. Houses are cheaper, taxes are lower, it's still close to the City, and has safer schools than Chicago and most of the south suburbs. It isn't going to require too much brain power for a poor family facing horrific gang violence in Roseland or West Pullman to figure out that the Region presents several advantages over Calumet City, Dolton, Midlothian, or other south IL suburbs, which have poor schools, growing crime issues of their own, and a relatively high tax burden. In IL, the poorer the municipality, the higher the overall tax rate tends to be.

So again, who knows what the future might hold. In Plainfield, even though it's a lot more isolated than the Region is from Chicago, still drew quite a few low income families, and a huge foreclosure disaster in the last housing bust. We'll see if the same thing happens in NWI.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,730,345 times
Reputation: 14786
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
What specific benefits would they lose by moving to IN? And why do you assume that all lower income people are on public assistance? Or that they are renters?


Well you said yourself in post #85 that "the South Chicago suburbs are among the poorest in the state"! Anyone who makes a decent income IS not electively living in those neighborhoods. I would assume that most lower income individuals are either stuck in their current home because they can't get a higher loan (so not selling), renting or using section 8. Not too many options for that here unless they are moving to another lower income area such as Gary or East Chicago. Most of the NW Indiana towns have very low rental options and homes are between $250k-750K; therefore, those individuals are probably not moving here and staying put. As I stated before, in my area I have only met 2 families who have moved here from the Chicago South suburbs and it was due to white flight in Homewood and Lansing!


As far as public assistance is concerned some is federal and some is at the state level. States are becoming more involved in who gets and who doesn't get assistance from both levels. State funding also plays a big part in it. Anyone who might be receiving it is not going to risk losing it by moving to another state!


Anyway, it's pretty clear you are Pro-Illinois and should rightfully be if you plan to stay. This forum is for those who are considering leaving. I among others are giving them information on that. If you are not, then maybe you should not participate in this thread any longer and stop the harassment of others that are trying to help PER THE THREAD.

Last edited by CGab; 07-11-2017 at 11:44 AM..
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