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The bigger issue is we have created a culture that shuns saving $$$ and instead values having the nicest phone, car or whatever silly status symbol is cool at the time. Spend everything and save nothing is our cultural ideal right now and the consequence of it won’t be pretty.
Very true. We have had a government, that for years rewards the spenders, and punishes the savers. A totally backward concept. They want it because the liberal Democrats do not like or want financially independent people. They are not so easy to control. It's why they want to give anyone a voters card, who can run, jump, or swim over here.
Agreed. I watched a lineup of cars on TV as they waited to pick up a free box of food. I didn't see a single automobile over 5 years old
The automotive industry really exposes peoples financial stupidity.
Hey lets buy a $70,000 truck and be the coolest person in the neighborhood.
Or even more insane: Lets spend $200,000 on a Hummer H1 Alpha.
All I'm saying is this whole argument about paying ridiculously high property taxes for "good" public schools, along with everything else,
I went to a high paid suburban district with high property taxes. I had so many bad teachers especially in Jr. High that I failed classes and my parents looked at putting me in private school. The teachers were just psychologically dysfunctional hacks who would not have been tolerated in the private sector and could not be fired thanks to tenure. I was fortunate my high school was better and I graduated top 10%. Just throwing money at schools doesn't always make for better schools. Also, some schools just have a lot of under-performing students not necessarily the teacher's fault. There is only so much you can do force people to do the work necessary to learn.
I went to a high paid suburban district with high property taxes. I had so many bad teachers especially in Jr. High that I failed classes and my parents looked at putting me in private school. The teachers were just psychologically dysfunctional hacks who would not have been tolerated in the private sector and could not be fired thanks to tenure. I was fortunate my high school was better and I graduated top 10%. Just throwing money at schools doesn't always make for better schools. Also, some schools just have a lot of under-performing students not necessarily the teacher's fault. There is only so much you can do force people to do the work necessary to learn.
Completely agree. I had much the same. And even if the schools and teachers are good, it's no guarantee that the kids are going to be able to extract the good out of it and / or them. You have nit wits in every public school. Hell, half the parents today have zero business even being parents. And no school will make up for lousy parenting. I don't care how much money you throw at them.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Originally Posted by bill460
All I'm saying is this whole argument about paying ridiculously high property taxes for "good" public schools, along with everything else, is not an economically viable excuse... And it never has been. As you said, 75% or more of your property taxes go to support the public school district. Even if you use it to the fullest, it's just not worth it. Simply because you're going to end up paying far more over the long haul, than what a Charter School, or some other private education institution would charge you for the same thing.
Using myself as an example. The home we sold when we left Illinois now has a yearly property tax bill of over $13K a year. So if someone purchased that house based on the education quality of the public school system there, they would pay out a bare minimum of $156,000.00 in taxes over a 12 year period, (1st through 12th grade). It would actually be substantially more than that, because the taxes are going to continue to rise during that same 12 year period. Just as they have in the past. So $200,000.00+ would be a far more accurate assessment. That's a hell of a price to pay to get a kid through the 12th grade. Again, you can acquire a private education for far less. Even if you toss 2 kids into the mix, it still comes a long way from balancing out.
And let's examine, "everything else". Everyone has roads, libraries, police, fire, sewers, running water, parks with grass and swing sets, etc. So that all balances out. And as far as restaurants serving, "magnificent cuisine", going to, "jazz festivals", etc., you don't need to pay 5 digits a year in taxes to get good surf & turf, and listen to a band with your babe and a beer under the stars.
The same can be said about airports. Do you really think it's a viable trade off to pay thousands of dollars a year more, just to be a half hour from one? You could take a limo back and forth from Rockford cheaper. Bensenville, Bellwood, and Schiller Park are right next to O'Hare. What's their average tax bill? Hospitals are no different. Most are private. Out here we have homes within 3 miles of the Mayo Clinic and the Arizona Heart Institute, that have property tax bills well under $3K a year. Some half that. So again the numbers just don't add up. Restaurants, hospitals, shopping malls, are all private institutions that gain nothing from houses 3 miles away paying 5 digit a year taxes. Actually, they are losing because they're all getting clobbered with idiotic tax bills as well.
I get the point you're trying to make. I hear it all the time. Hell, I lived it for 38 years of my life. And all I'm saying is I can totally understand someone wanting these things. But there is no way you can equate them to be viable from a monetary stand point, by paying outlandish property taxes. Just based on the fact most anything the government runs, is well proven to be a financial disaster in itself. I'll give you the U.S. Postal Service vs. UPS and Fed Ex as an example. I won't even get into socialized medicine, and all the rest.
See, I think it can be monetary viable. Depending on one's education level, career expertise, industry one's in and so on. I still think it comes to a personal choice and what one's willing to pay for or not. And, with all due respect, desirable parts of Chicagoland are much more expensive than where you are, and it would be much easier for an average person to move from Naperville there than it would be in the opposite.
Median income in Naperville: $118,000. Median income where you are: $52,000. Median Housing price here: $410k, median housing price there: $235k. And when you consider the property taxes disparity property prices difference is much higher. And your claim how Lake Havasu City is growing while it's shrinking here. Between 2010 and 2018 Naperville population grew 4.3% while your city's population grew 4.9%.
See, I think it can be monetary viable. Depending on one's education level, career expertise, industry one's in and so on. I still think it comes to a personal choice and what one's willing to pay for or not. And, with all due respect, desirable parts of Chicagoland are much more expensive than where you are, and it would be much easier for an average person to move from Naperville there than it would be in the opposite.
Median income in Naperville: $118,000. Median income where you are: $52,000. Median Housing price here: $410k, median housing price there: $235k. And when you consider the property taxes disparity property prices difference is much higher. And your claim how Lake Havasu City is growing while it's shrinking here. Between 2010 and 2018 Naperville population grew 4.3% while your city's population grew 4.9%.
So what? How does any of that make paying 13 times more for for property taxes there, worth it? It doesn't, plain and simple. Regardless of how much fuzzy math you employ. What you earn has exactly zero bearing on how your tax money is wasted. Paying 13 times more for taxes, does not guarantee you a public school 13 times better. Not even close. And it shouldn't cost any more to run a public school with 1,000 students in it, regardless of what the houses sell for around it. That's preposterous.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill460
So what? How does any of that make paying 13 times more for for property taxes there, worth it? It doesn't, plain and simple. Regardless of how much fuzzy math you employ. What you earn has exactly zero bearing on how your tax money is wasted. Paying 13 times more for taxes, does not guarantee you a public school 13 times better. Not even close. And it shouldn't cost any more to run a public school with 1,000 students in it, regardless of what the houses sell for around it. That's preposterous.
I've already answered that. Because I would have to pay for it myself anyways. I think property taxes are one of the few things that aren't wasted in this state because they go directly to local services. I care much more about what I'm getting for my money than the amount I'm paying. And, I think all in all, Naperville and a school district I send my kids to are a pretty good value for what I'm paying for and what I care about....at this moment in my life. Five, ten years from now that will change, I'm sure.
Now, Illinois on a state level is an entirely different story and a mess of its own.
.....I think property taxes are one of the few things that aren't wasted in this state because they go directly to local services. I care much more about what I'm getting for my money than the amount I'm paying.........
Then I would classify you as an excellent Illinois property taxpayer. The Democrats there would be proud of you! You'll pay whatever they demand, and you don't care. And live with whatever they provide you with, and be happy to get it. Because you are actually convinced, no matter how ridiculous that amount may be, they're not wasting any of your money providing it. I would love to sell you a car!
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,068,439 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill460
Then I would classify you as an excellent Illinois property taxpayer. The Democrats there would be proud of you! You'll pay whatever they demand, and you don't care. And live with whatever they provide you with, and be happy to get it. Because you are actually convinced, no matter how ridiculous that amount may be, they're not wasting any of your money providing it. I would love to sell you a car!
Come on buddy, enough with labeling. This about practicality for me. If I have to pay for it one way or the other, what does it matter?
And, I never said I would pay what they demanded. I said, At THIS TIME I feel services provided are commensurate with moneys paid.
And thousands of other homeowners agree with me (based on high home prices), otherwise they'd all be in the middle of nowhere like you paying peanuts.
And, I never said I would pay what they demanded....... And thousands of other homeowners agree with me.........
You don't have a choice in the matter, and neither do they. So it doesn't matter in the least if they agree or not. If you live there you're going to pay.... A LOT. And you're not getting any more than anyone else is. You would like to think you are, and you can argue that you are. But the fact is your not. I've lived there. I've paid the price living there. It was a ripoff then, and it's an even bigger ripoff now.
It's why people are leaving. High income people. They have finally wised up to what everyone else already knows. Illinois property taxes are much like a bad marriage. You're stuck in it, and you don't realize how bad it is, until you get the hell out and find something better. Then, much like the bad marriage, years later when you reflect back on it, you'll realize for yourself just how bad it was. All you've managed to accomplish in the meantime, is a high tolerance for financial pain. I'm sorry but I'm not impressed.
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