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Old 06-24-2008, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 7,244,289 times
Reputation: 1194

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This is pretty obvious.

Why is the average income in Flossmoor so much higher?

I suspect this is because of all the apartments on the eastern edge of Oak Park. Just curious, what is the average household west of Ridgeland? I guarantee it is well north of $100K per year.

And let us not forget driving. Oak Park is way closer for those days when taking the train is not an option.

Naperville is closer to downtown than Flossmoor (31 mins vs. 42 mins express train).
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:54 PM
 
11,973 posts, read 28,769,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Despite the fact that CPS does have a handful of schools with outstanding results the overall problems are unlikely to be completed eliminated.

Even if CPS was magically transformed into a place where each child could grow like a greenhouse flower families with kids would still be drawn to the larger quieter homes where one's money goes much farther. The delivery of City services is fairly dysfunctional and when one factors in all the quality of life issues most suburbs offer more to families.

Chicago has its place, younger people and all kinds of people of means can choose to live in much different circumstances.

I have my doubts about any wholesale "rebirth" of any inner ring suburb. Sure some of these places will save you commuting costs, but if the structure itself and its mechanical systems were last updated when oil was a dollar barrel you might need to stuff dollar bills into the ancient storm windows or light cash to heat the place...

Towns like Homewood and Flossmor do have some things going for them but somehow I don't see other towns in Dupage Co, Lake Co, or N/NW Cook giving up anything to 'em.

If there were some sort of showcase effort to address all the energy / maintenance issues and perhaps even redevelop some of the really obsolete rental units that could be a game changer. The upfront costs might be something that one could hope for a grant from the State of Illinois or some sort of federal partnership, but somehow things don't seem to moving in that direction.

I don't mind to imply that ANY suburb is exclusively troubled by this kind of thing. Once upon a time I had an partnership interest in a mid sized (14 unit) building in Elmhurst. It was in good repair and located conveniently to the hospital and transportation. As people's lifestyles changed the configuration of the building really did not attract the kind of renters that were desirable. We sold it for a profit to a firm that was not as emotionally involved with the tenants. I know that it would cost a fortune to rebuild the place to modern standards. Of course that is not really economically justifiable...
I don't think you're realizing just how automobile dependent the outer suburbs truly are. The are completely infeasible as communities without the independently operated automobile. If automobiles are no longer feasible transportation options en masse, the development of the city and inner suburbs will explode. It won't matter if people want a big yard. Unless they are wealthy, it won't be an option. Densification will occur near every train stop, and land near the stops closest to the city will be more valuable. Teardowns will be the norm for homes that don't have historic protections, so it won't matter if homes are outdated. On the fringe, the large McMansions of the past 20 years will be subdivided into apartments for the poor, and the large yards will be infilled with substandard housing. Some outer suburbs with large lots will remain as enclaves for the rich, but the middle class won't have that option.

Of course advances in fuel efficiency and telecommuting could make all of this sci-fi talk irrelevant. Hopefully we'll end up in some sort of happy medium. I don't think the middle-class American public is ready to give up single-family homes and soccer practice. And I'm sure none of us want to live in anything like the crowded cities of Asia. But that could be where we're heading if the automobile is abandoned.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Around Chicago
862 posts, read 2,580,167 times
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What's with the Flossmoor/Oak Park comparisons? I wasn't comparing the two towns in my statement. I was trying to illustrate that a really nice town isn't always negatively affected by a few surrounding "less than desirable" areas.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,733,244 times
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Just wanted to throw this article out there for those who haven't seen it yet.

The Next Slum?

The thesis of the article has been pretty much been summarized by Lookout Kid's (and others') posts previously.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:53 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 3,419,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJT83 View Post
I know you had it listed as a con, but you have to be more accurate on "train ride downtown". OP is 15-20 min. to downtown on the Metra depending on the route, compared to Flossmoor taking 42 minutes on an express route. Call it nitpicking, but you can't get loose with facts like that.

Add to that the fact that OP has the Blue and Green lines that get downtown in roughly 25 min. depending on the stop, and Flossmoor can't compete with OP's downtown accessability.

Makes me wonder where you got your other facts, to be honest.
I listed exactly where I got my other facts.
Express trains are popular for a reason.

Also, just thought since it kind of came up it would be interesting to go ahead and compare the two.

I have to say - I did not realize you could take a 30 minute train downtown from Naperville - that was a surprise!
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:01 PM
 
11,973 posts, read 28,769,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
Just wanted to throw this article out there for those who haven't seen it yet.

The Next Slum?

The thesis of the article has been pretty much been summarized by Lookout Kid's (and others') posts previously.
Yeah, all of my doom and gloom scenarios are probably a hybrid of that article and James Howard Kunstler's The Geography of Nowhere. It's going to take a pretty major economic meltdown and huge oil shortages to get to that point, however. I'm not entirely a believer. While I detest urban sprawl for myself, I recognize that today's cities offer a large array of housing choices. The fall of the automobile would greatly limit these choices, thereby killing the "American Dream" of owning a home on a patch of land for many Americans.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:22 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 3,419,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skye1974 View Post
What's with the Flossmoor/Oak Park comparisons? I wasn't comparing the two towns in my statement. I was trying to illustrate that a really nice town isn't always negatively affected by a few surrounding "less than desirable" areas.
But the counter-argument was that your point was invalid because the towns were so different in all other ways. So I was curious if that was true.

The biggest difference is clearly distance from downtown, I don't mean to brush that off. Flossmoor is not an inner-ring burb.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,733,244 times
Reputation: 3866
Here's another article about trouble in exurbia.

Life on the fringes of U.S. suburbia becomes untenable with rising gas costs - International Herald Tribune
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 7,244,289 times
Reputation: 1194
Default sugar grove appreciation?

I would love to hear from the folks who think Sugar Grove has great appreciation potential.

If you want to see what can happen to McMansions iin the suburbs look no further than Aurora or Elgin, where huge homes were subdivided into apartments as the manufacturing in those areas struggled and many of the affluent residents left.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:07 AM
 
38 posts, read 107,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
I would love to hear from the folks who think Sugar Grove has great appreciation potential.

If you want to see what can happen to McMansions in the suburbs look no further than Aurora or Elgin, where huge homes were subdivided into apartments as the manufacturing in those areas struggled and many of the affluent residents left.
Fortunately the zoning laws no longer allow "down"zoning. If you see someone converting their house into an apartment call the zoning enforcement. They will stop it, they have to. I grew up in Aurora while all of that division of the big houses was was going on. It ruined the East Aurora school district by nearly doubling its population, while the tax revenue steam became negative. The city moved very slowly to correct the zoning error - thirty-five years later the effects are still apparent.

It would be better to tear down the big empty houses than to saddle the people who did not overbuild with the debt. I love Sugar Grove. The schools are very good, and the amount of building that occurred was minor compared to, say Plano or Yorkville. The big builders just had to work so hard to keep the planning board happy many of the big developments stalled. Newman, two years ago, now Kimball Hill.
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