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Old 11-13-2013, 03:21 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,773,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The "type" of people that would support a "nuclear weapons free zone" are exactly the "type" that would fret about enforcing rules that toss kids that break rules and do not conform with standards becuase they've spent their academic career studying the "problems" of whatever "vicitims" are fashionable.

In contrast folks who've spent just a much time in college earning their MBA, JD, MD or PhD in something more like Engineering generally have a whole different idea when it comes to basic "law and order" issues.
Well, I don't believe "conforming to standards" is necessarily a bad thing, but it's again nonsense that certain educated "types" are predisposed to let kids off for bad behavior. It's not as black and white as that. It's highly ignorant to assume that the empathy for another's "problems" gained from knowledge somehow makes the empathetic person is predisposed to allowing kids off the hook. If anything it allows one a clearer understanding of a particular situation, and more context for judging the degree of punishment. In contrast the ignorant and self serving generally call for harsher punishment due to lack of knowledge and fear.

There were groups of people in history that classified people into "types". They took head measurements, liked to give people numbers etc... To the horrific detriment of the modern world.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:50 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,914,994 times
Reputation: 18723
Here is something to chew on:

The controversy about racist remarks by Nobel laureate James Watson should focus on his eugenics.

And for the record my views on the matter arre firmly with the author, Michael Cook, and NOT with those like James Watson.

The fact is that the forces that shape human behavior are overwhelmingly associated not with the sequence of peptides on their chromosones as much as they are by their surroundings, what they reinforce through their studies, what they DO not what they are made of. With that in mind it is no surprise that those who would straight-facedly claim places that border some of the roughest parts of Chicago are no more a threat to one's safety than those placea short distance away that are home to some of the most remarkable works of architecture have clearly allowed their affection for place to overwhelm logic.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,386,985 times
Reputation: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The "type" of people that would support a "nuclear weapons free zone" are exactly the "type" that would fret about enforcing rules that toss kids that break rules and do not conform with standards becuase they've spent their academic career studying the "problems" of whatever "vicitims" are fashionable.

In contrast folks who've spent just a much time in college earning their MBA, JD, MD or PhD in something more like Engineering generally have a whole different idea when it comes to basic "law and order" issues.
When it's in their backyard and going to impact their property values, even liberals tend to get pro-active really fast. I'm not sure there's a disciplinary problem at OPRF to be honest.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:54 PM
 
11,973 posts, read 31,622,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
When it's in their backyard and going to impact their property values, even liberals tend to get pro-active really fast. I'm not sure there's a disciplinary problem at OPRF to be honest.
As part of the "achievement gap" conversation, some activists involved in OPRF are suggesting that black students are disciplined differently and more harshly than white students for similar infractions. Some of these activists go on to claim that harsh discipline of black students is a possible cause of the achievement gap. I think this is what Chet is referencing in his roundabout wordy way… ???
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,099,703 times
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Default The problem with schools

The problem with high schools is universal. They are all filled with teenagers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson View Post
Show me a school where fights, drugs and disputes between teens don't happen. Is this so in the town where you live? Cause those things happen in virtually EVERY town in the north and western suburbs. There are a lot of highly educated and successful people, such as professors, academics, doctors, lawyers, architects etc... that flock to Oak Park to raise their families. The professors I know from Northwestern University, UIC, U of C, Loyola, DePaul, IIT etc... send their kids to the schools here because their kids get a top notch education and experience, and they're very happy with it.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:11 AM
 
374 posts, read 1,030,837 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The "type" of people that would support a "nuclear weapons free zone" are exactly the "type" that would fret about enforcing rules that toss kids that break rules and do not conform with standards becuase they've spent their academic career studying the "problems" of whatever "vicitims" are fashionable.

In contrast folks who've spent just a much time in college earning their MBA, JD, MD or PhD in something more like Engineering generally have a whole different idea when it comes to basic "law and order" issues.

Did you just say that? I guess my kid's classmates' parents at his east side OP school didn't get the memo. 19 kids in the class, the parents' include a Harvard MBA, a Stanford MBA, at least three other MBAs whose schools I don't know off the top of my head, one of whom is also an engineer, 4 partners at international law firms and several other attorneys working at firms/corporations, two doctors, and two PhDs (English and Psychology). I did, however, take a sociology class in college once.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:38 AM
 
4,152 posts, read 7,869,208 times
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Where is the downtown of River Forest? That's eluded me even though I have been going around there for years. (My grandfather was born in 1895 in River Forest. Can't imagine where.)
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,523 posts, read 13,882,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriaT View Post
Where is the downtown of River Forest? That's eluded me even though I have been going around there for years. (My grandfather was born in 1895 in River Forest. Can't imagine where.)
Downtown River Forest is just east of Harlem along Lake Street (in Oak Park.) The shopping center on the RF side of Harlem also counts as downtown RF.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,386,985 times
Reputation: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
As part of the "achievement gap" conversation, some activists involved in OPRF are suggesting that black students are disciplined differently and more harshly than white students for similar infractions. Some of these activists go on to claim that harsh discipline of black students is a possible cause of the achievement gap. I think this is what Chet is referencing in his roundabout wordy way… ???
I don't know, that sound like extreme liberal mumbo jumbo coming from a place of shelter to me but maybe. But I highly doubt these views are held by most Oak Parkers who reside here on earth, even if they are liberal otherwise.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:49 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,773,911 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Here is something to chew on:

The controversy about racist remarks by Nobel laureate James Watson should focus on his eugenics.

And for the record my views on the matter arre firmly with the author, Michael Cook, and NOT with those like James Watson.

The fact is that the forces that shape human behavior are overwhelmingly associated not with the sequence of peptides on their chromosones as much as they are by their surroundings, what they reinforce through their studies, what they DO not what they are made of. With that in mind it is no surprise that those who would straight-facedly claim places that border some of the roughest parts of Chicago are no more a threat to one's safety than those placea short distance away that are home to some of the most remarkable works of architecture have clearly allowed their affection for place to overwhelm logic.
Posting links about a racist Nobel laureate does not undo the fact that one would group people into "types" so simply.

Something I've always found remarkable about some places that border rough parts of the city of Chicago is how little it actually affect the neighboring communities in certain cases. With "logic" in mind, one may assume that if an area butts up against another with issues, those issues would spill over... However, if one actually looks at the data (a favorite for some) and analyzes it, one would see how little of an affect this close proximity has. Only the ignorant would assume that a resident with "affection" for a certain place couldn't look at the place they live objectively.

Proximity in relation to "perceived safety" is a very interesting topic to look at, and since we're on the topic, it's notable that many families move to "desirable" and affluent suburbs once the kids come, as a way to shield them from the dangers of the city. Ironically, the richest suburbs out west and north fair no better in dealing with dangerous issues such as hard drug addiction where gangbangers will actually drive to deliver into their communities, and rich teens out west will shoot down 290 to get their hit of Heroin. This illusion of safety people build up is just that, as one needs to analyze what they're trying to keep their children safe from.

Also, on the topic of framing people into "types", one must wonder how such beliefs fit into the "standard" accepted normals of acceptability within certain communities.
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