New Illiana Exressway

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

I agree with the urban public transit spending needs IN ADDITION to the highway needs. A Circle line, CTA or Metra directly between O'Hare and Midway, CTA out to Schaumburg and the Metra Star line are all good ideas. But let's not turn this into a Suburb vs. City debate or auto vs. public transit debate.Your welcome to start another thread or revive the ones I've seen regarding that

Unfortunately, given the finite dollars we have for transportation, I think the two are mutually exclusive concepts, much like being a Cubs and Sox fan We need to prioritize one over the other. I personally think that priority should be our existing transportation structure. That will encourage adaptive reuse of urban areas that are serviced by public transit, as opposed to further sprawl which is car dependent.

That's what we need to be doing as a nation. Not only will this lessen our reliance on foreign oil, it may even lead to less segregation, better educational and employment opportunities for isolated segments of our population, and preservation of valuable farmland and other natural resources. Nothing but good will come out of such a policy.

I do not think subdivisions will pop up without easy access to the job bases. But if you build new highways, such developments will appear along them. By building new roads, you're going to be encouraging sprawl, intentional or not!

[richb]

The thing is the subdivisions and business HAVE already appeared in those places, especially on the Indiana side of the border. the Illiana should have been built ten years ago already. The longer this stays a proposal the worse the traffic will get and it will be harder to find a route. Its a common misperception that construction of a highway brings development and traffic, its going to happen due to its location which is excellent, no matter how little roads are built. The market drives development, not the planning boards.

The reason roads need to be done before mass transit is that more people can and will use a road, in fact buses need roads to drive on as well as the cars and trucks. Public transit is virtually nonexistent in this part of the Chicago area, and there is little to no support for it as well. As an example, about 16,000 people use the south shore railroad, an Illiana expressway would have far more users then any transit line. I don't want to argue with the pro transit folks, but the reality of the southland and NW Indiana points to roads, not buses and rails.

Public transit also doesn't address trucking and truck routes, which needs a bypass badly. Four lanes for trucks may sound ridiculous to you but I guess you haven't seen the truck traffic on the Borman and 1-80. It would go a long way towards ending solving backups and increasing the safety of trucking. Many of the cross country trucks don't need to get as close to Chicago as they do today but that's the only way there is so it happens. The next interstate is pretty far south. Truckers hate the Chicago area because they cannot avoid it even when they aren't stopping here.

Trucking is so much more flexible to business then any other transport choice. Trains cannot take up the slack due to it being fully filled as well. Since most mass transit points to Chicago it doesn't go the direction the Illiana would run, not solving the problem of the traffic of either cars or trucks which are east west not north south.

The thing is, if the Illiana would go all the way to 1-80 on the west in New Lenox and Michigan City on the east, it could pay for itself.

The last proposal had it going to Michigan City on the east linking it with the Indiana toll road and I-94. Its not in the current proposal due to NIMBY's. And if it would go all the way to I-80 instead of ending at I-57, it would be a extension of I-355 making it a true bypass of Chicago. It would be a tollway no matter who builds it. So let a private company build it and run it. It doesn't have to be paid for by taxpayers then. Having private companies take over the chicago skyway and the Indiana tollway have worked out fine.

On the subject of sprawl. I hate that word. It's people's homes and communities no much how much you think it is generic and wasteful. A larger Chicago area is a more affordable one to the majority of the residents of the greater Chicago area. Trying to limit growth only leads to high prices for everybody. A lack of affordable areas are far worse then the problems of a larger metro area (most are overblown to begin with). Many expensive metro areas are due to artificial market constraints rather then the area being subject to high levels of growth.

There are lots of jobs in Naperville that are hard to fill because that area isn't that affordable. But if that Illiana existed folks could live in much more affordable and livable Lowell, Indiana and get to Naperville in 45 minutes.

The recent expansion of the Borman and I-294 has helped with congestion, so it isn't true you can't build your way out of it. Not building more because some believe that, seems really stupid to me and its been transportation policy for far too long, its a head in the sand mentality. The rebuilt I-294 and the Borman has bought some time but traffic will always increase over time, so the Illiana should be built as soon as possible.

[scarletneon]

fine. if i wouldn't have mentioned the bad "S" word, would you agree that we should FIX WHAT WE HAVE THAT IS FALLING APART FIRST??

the whole "right of way should be purchased now" argument can hold true for railroads too, which could encourage more transit oriented development than the autocentric development.

Also, I never said that four trucking lanes was ridiculous. I just wanted to know if they were separate, so I could know if the ATA was taking that first step of getting its way of having its own interstate system. (And yes, they advocate that we should build another set of entire highways just for trucks. If we actually encouraged better development that wasn't so automobile oriented, maybe people wouldn't have to congest the highways by either taking transit or not having to live 50 miles from their work, leaving more room for the trucks.)

my post was nothing but GENERALITIES, as is this one... not about your personal area of Chicagoland. and the idea that we're building a brand new superhighway in 2009 is crazy to me.

the Illiana will just fill up with cars, and 20 years from now we'll be talking about building the Wisiliana to ease the congestion on the Illiana.

[WildWestDude]

Ideally, the further north its build the better. However, by going north you run into more suburban sprawl thus it will be more expensive.
Sounds that they are not even sure how many truckers would actually use it as many head west and north. Thus, I would say build it from I-55 to I-65 into Lowell Indiana. By taking it to I-55, then drivers can easily access I-80 to points west and thus avoiding the metro area.
Not many more available options and it has to be done as the Borman 80/94 will never have enough lanes.
As stated, the sooner they do it the better.


nice Chicagoland road map here:

http://www.gcmtravel.com/gcm/maps_chicago.jsp

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by richb

On the subject of sprawl. I hate that word. It's people's homes and communities no much how much you think it is generic and wasteful. A larger Chicago area is a more affordable one to the majority of the residents of the greater Chicago area. Trying to limit growth only leads to high prices for everybody. A lack of affordable areas are far worse then the problems of a larger metro area (most are overblown to begin with). Many expensive metro areas are due to artificial market constraints rather then the area being subject to high levels of growth.

The "lack of affordable housing" argument doesn't fly because there are plenty of affordable areas in the City and established close-in suburbs that could be revitalized. The problem is that people don't want to live there because other types of people live there that they deem inferior or undesirable. Thus far, we've reacted by subsidizing the building of new communities for them as opposed to encouraging integration. This is an unfortunate side of human nature that's probably going to have to be corrected by national policy; e.g. higher consumer fuel prices, revamping of educational funding methods, etc.

Sprawl was at one time encouraged by policy, and it can be discouraged by policy now. IMHO, the nation will be healthier in the long run if we do that.

[04JETTA]

It needs to be built one way or the other and sooner rather than later

[BRU67]

Interesting article in today's Trib about the younger generation's attitude towards cars...

Youths losing their longing to own cars
J.D. Power and Associates study finds shift among teens regarding 'necessity of and desire to have cars'

By Martin Zimmerman

Is the love affair between cars and young people starting to cool?

***

According to J.D. Power, "Online discussions by teens indicate shifts in perceptions regarding the necessity of and desire to have cars."

Part of the reason could be economic, the research company said. During the recession, the cost of owning and maintaining a car likely makes less sense than it did when gas was 30 cents a gallon and red-blooded American teenagers yearned for a Chevy Camaro or a Pontiac GTO.

***

In Japan, the first major developed country to experience a decline in car ownership, disinterest among young people in owning cars -- especially in urban areas -- is cited as one of the factors behind "demotorization."

The trend is having a serious effect on the Japanese auto industry and poses a threat to businesses located away from public transportation lines.

Meanwhile, U.S., Japanese and other automakers increasingly have been looking to China for sales growth, although the nation is also rapidly developing a homegrown stable of car companies.

Youths losing their longing to own cars -- chicagotribune.com

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Or spend the money on an urban public transit infrastructure in the region's largest city that's in desperate need of repair, updating and expansion (i.e. Chicago)? For once, can we spend serious transportation dollars on something other than highways that encourage more suburban sprawl? Sheesh.

Well Bru you gotta deal with problems as they exist. An urban public transit system won't do anything to move truck traffic along.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by supernerdgirl

the Illiana will just fill up with cars, and 20 years from now we'll be talking about building the Wisiliana to ease the congestion on the Illiana.

OK, so what? Growth is good.