Wheaton Elementary Schools

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by chet everett

...but there is evidence that even bright kids that are otherwise well prepared suffer in such environments.

I don't doubt that this is true in districts with very high rates of mobility, but Wheaton? Do you have evidence that this would apply to a suburban district like Wheaton 200, where the highest rate of mobility in a middle school is under 10%? I don't think any of the schools in Wheaton have a rate of mobility that would have any effects on a bright kid from a solid home.

[Lookout Kid]

I know there are a handful of west-suburban districts better than D41 in Glen Ellyn, but it does compare favorably to Wheaton 200. An issue for some is that that D41 feeds in to Glenbard West, which draws about a third of it's students from Glenside Middle School in Glendale Heights. So you've got 2/3 of the kids from the excellent Hadley Middle School in Glen Ellyn, and 1/3 of the kids from an elementary school system with lower performance. I've heard that West is quite stratified in this sense, and that they have a very challenging AP curriculum for the college bound. The "college readiness" numbers for GBW are quite good considering the numbers of low income students in the school from Glendale Heights.

Glen Ellyn's high schools are part of the huge Glenbard district, and this could be considered a negative when compared to Wheaton, which has greater local control over the high school (Glenbard D87 includes Glen Ellyn, Glendale Heights, Lombard, Carol Stream, Bloomingdale, and parts of Wheaton and unincorporated areas). But I know many families with kids at Glenbard West and Glenbard South (the two high schools that serve Glen Ellyn), and they are generally pleased with the education for their college-bound kids. Our high school babysitters bring over huge stacks of college-level textbooks on Saturday nights, and the kids we know in that high school are really great and going to good colleges. Its not like hanging out with a few Glendale Heights kids (most of whom are quite nice kids) is likely to ruin your life in four short years, in spite of some of the hyper school competitiveness you see in Chicagoland real estate.

[chet everett]

The data, like most things related to US education, is spotty because it does involved re-analysis of things like student mobility taken from things like the schools own "census" vs the much harder to do kind of "longitudinal study" that tracks kids over time. One of the more recent studies is from NYC -- The Multiple Dimensions of Student Mobility and Implications for Academic Performance: Evidence from New York City Elementary and Middle School Students by Amy Ellen Schwartz, Leanna Stiefel, Luis Chalico :: SSRN

The thing too is that there have been some cases where schools specifically PLAN for a highly mobile student population AND can overcome the usual pitfalls associated with such circumstances -- http://www.educationworld.com/a_issues/issues349.shtml

…high expectations for student achievement,.. small classes, …solid community support also contribute to a high level of student learning…Because of the values most students bring to school, there are few discipline problems… Also key for continued success ... goals for more rigorous content and improved student performance.

The "easy" selection criteria remains just finding the most affordable home in the part of town that is generally most costly, which pretty much ensures that you'll not be in an area with under-prepared students. That said there is evidence things like substance abuse sorta "stick" to people that move even from crummier areas where they might have got hooked to areas where such behavior is outside the accepted mainstream. That is another reason to prefer areas with lower than average mobility data...

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by chet everett

That said there is evidence things like substance abuse sorta "stick" to people that move even from crummier areas where they might have got hooked to areas where such behavior is outside the accepted mainstream. That is another reason to prefer areas with lower than average mobility data...

The much-publicized heroin epidemic first kind of popped up in the wealthier Fox Valley communities like St. Charles and Geneva before the numbers of overdoses spiked in DuPage County. It doesn't seem to be related to income or class in any way, and is affecting a cross-section of the area.

It would worry me, but I've seen this pop up in nearly every area we have considered living in--including city and suburbs of Madison, WI where I spent much of my childhood. It seems to be a problem that will be with us no matter where we live for a while, until it fades and comes back again somewhere else.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Among folks who study these things it is pretty widely acknowledged that the more kids are forced to move around during the school year the greater the likelihood that their performance will suffer. The Illinios Interactive Reports that report on the performance of all public schools track this data. The schools with a greater "mobility rate" have more kids performing below standard. These also tend to be the portions of towns with a greater number of large apartment complexes which tend to be attractive to lower income families but there is evidence that even bright kids that are otherwise well prepared suffer in such environments. Here is the data for the three middle schools in Wheaton D200:

FRANKLIN MIDDLE SCHOOL: Student Characteristics

MONROE MIDDLE SCHOOL: Student Characteristics

EDISON MIDDLE SCHOOL: Student Characteristics

If you are concerned with what influences will effect kids in middle school it is probably best to shop for homes in the area served by the school with the lowest mobility / highest performance...

And now we have MIDDLE SCHOOL students categorized, pidgeon-holed and classified??

Sometimes, the education establishment (and those groups that feed off of them) has simply gone too far, and has parents skipping rope or jumping through hoops just to feed the monster.

One school district doesn't offer 15 subjects in Advanced Placement. Obviously sub-par!

Another district doesn't offer many options in art or music--better sell the house..

Another district has 10% of its enrollment from the "other side of the tracks"--run for your lives!

It just gets ridiculous after a while..

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by MassVt

It just gets ridiculous after a while..

Well, people have to justify the hefty home prices they have paid in some way.

It kind of reminds me of the crazy audiophiles who are convinced they need the exact correct cables to enjoy their music collection. People obsess over this stuff.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Well, people have to justify the hefty home prices they have paid in some way.

It kind of reminds me of the crazy audiophiles who are convinced they need the exact correct cables to enjoy their music collection. People obsess over this stuff.

I agree...and they really shouldn't..

I guess that I'm old enough to have had parents who grew up in the Depression, who just tried to find a home in a decent neighborhood, and send their kids to the local schools ( Catholic and public), and who didn't see the need to obscess over student-teacher ratios, income distribution, AP offerings( which were rare in my time), etc. This nation has made cottage industries out of things that would have been better off ignored, or left as they were ( i.e weddings, funerals, college admissions, even birthday parties)..

I just get disgusted with all this sometimes..

[chet everett]

The state spits out data for the elementary schools too.

Honestly I don't really buy into every last bit of the "data centric" summaries that seem to be pouring out of these "studies" but when folks are trying to decide between two houses that may be several hundred thousand dollars apart in price ...

My experience as both a former classroom teacher and someone that remains actively engaged in watching what happens in schools does strongly support the direction of the DOD schools -- having a whole bunch of parents that make education a priority can overcome MANY of the things that otherwise would hold kids back. Unfortunately in too many even very upscale towns there are too few parents that want to stick their necks out and too many political types that want everyone to just "go along" with whatever hare-brained nonsense some over paid consultant come up with...

Most of Wheaton is a very solid town, with a whole lot of parents that understand the value of actively getting engaged. The handful of schools that have a greater number of parents that are unable / unwilling to get involved probably still have HUGE a majority of parents that simply will not let any nonsense ruin their kids' future...

The data helps to "slice and dice" trends into nice graphs and MIGHT be useful to explain why some part of town are more costly OR it might just be colorful info that describes what is essentially a "chicken & egg" problem -- people that are smart / serious about schools have kids that approach school the same way and live near one another...

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The state spits out data for the elementary schools too.

Honestly I don't really buy into every last bit of the "data centric" summaries that seem to be pouring out of these "studies" but when folks are trying to decide between two houses that may be several hundred thousand dollars apart in price ...

My experience as both a former classroom teacher and someone that remains actively engaged in watching what happens in schools does strongly support the direction of the DOD schools -- having a whole bunch of parents that make education a priority can overcome MANY of the things that otherwise would hold kids back. Unfortunately in too many even very upscale towns there are too few parents that want to stick their necks out and too many political types that want everyone to just "go along" with whatever hare-brained nonsense some over paid consultant come up with...

Most of Wheaton is a very solid town, with a whole lot of parents that understand the value of actively getting engaged. The handful of schools that have a greater number of parents that are unable / unwilling to get involved probably still have HUGE a majority of parents that simply will not let any nonsense ruin their kids' future...

The data helps to "slice and dice" trends into nice graphs and MIGHT be useful to explain why some part of town are more costly OR it might just be colorful info that describes what is essentially a "chicken & egg" problem -- people that are smart / serious about schools have kids that approach school the same way and live near one another...

To be honest, I don't see the problem of having to decide between two vastly-differently priced homes happening very often, but anyway..

To be clear, I wasn't implying that my parents' generation had some kind of blind faith in the local school system. I know that they would have objected to the proliferation of consultants, who excel mostly in cashing checks, and little else. They would have just insisted that their kids go home and "crack open their books", and do a little homework, without any speeches or colorful demonstrations, and they would not have worried so much about how the bureaucrats "ranked" their school district according to some dubious categories..

[ToriaT]

I would not worry about any elementary school in Wheaton. I would not split hairs and would not hesitate to send my children to any of them. My son went to Lowell elementary school, and he turned out just fine. Went to college on a scholarship....so don't hesitate.