Why Can't Chicago Shape Up its Public Schools? (sales, houses)

[Chi-town Native]

I actually agree with ajolotl on the zero tolerance issue - if kids don't want to go to school and learn (and more importantly, prevent other kids from learning), kick them out and let them take menial labor jobs until they see the light. It does only take a few bad apples to make an entire classroom unproductive.

However, more teachers (not necessarily paying higher salaries, mind you) to improve the teacher-to-student ratio would make a big difference, IMO.

I taught in CPS, and while all the arguments above about how money alone isn't going to help have merit, that's not the whole story.

The problems with CPS are some % the student body/the parents, and some close-to-equal % the bureaucracy.

CPS gets a LOT of money right now per student - but not enough makes it way to the "boots on the ground" in the classroom.

Read Jorvasky's recent articles - but a large number of overpaid administrators (ie, political hire hacks) and starving schools of money they are rightfully due via the TIF swindle is a massive part of the problem.

[Chi-town Native]

oh, did I also forget to mention those teachers who apparently mentally checked out of their jobs decades ago?

Teachers vs. teachers unions - chicagotribune.com

[BRU67]

Primarily the existence of a large percentage of students who are what education professionals would call low on the "Teachability Index," coupled with a lack of the appropriate means and resources to teach them.

Trying to force them to see the light on their own by tossing them out and making them flip burgers at McD's probably won't work. The more likely result is they'll simply hang out in the 'hood, jobless, and cause problems. That will in turn probably prevent you from restocking the school with kids of parents who care.

Out of sight, out of mind, right? Or not. These types of populations tend to grow much faster than the ones which embrace eduation, so sooner or later we'll be dealing with it.

[ajolotl]

I agree. In all honestly though we have to admit that a big part of the lack of political will comes from the fact that a lot of people think that most poor minorities are unteachable (innately too stupid), and prefer to just keep them at a good distance and hopefully not too riled up. People don't say this directly but I believe that is how many people feel. Any expenditure is a waste of money and hopelessly naive.

For the record I personally don't believe this, but I recognize that this is what one is up against.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I agree. In all honestly though we have to admit that a big part of the lack of political will comes from the fact that a lot of people think that most poor minorities are unteachable (innately too stupid), and prefer to just keep them at a good distance and hopefully not too riled up. People don't say this directly but I believe that is how many people feel. Any expenditure is a waste of money and hopelessly naive.

For the record I personally don't believe this, but I recognize that this is what one is up against.

That's why public education was started in the first place - to get shiftless immigrants accustomed to rote manual labor that was productive for society.

Anyone who thinks I'm joking should just look it up, it's no secret - as an education major at UIUC we had an entire course on the history of educational thought & practice in the USA. It pretty much boiled down to "keep 'em off the streets!"

And it's not a minority thing, per se (it is, but not in a color sense) - check out Blackboard Jungle sometime.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I agree. In all honestly though we have to admit that a big part of the lack of political will comes from the fact that a lot of people think that most poor minorities are unteachable (innately too stupid), and prefer to just keep them at a good distance and hopefully not too riled up. People don't say this directly but I believe that is how many people feel. Any expenditure is a waste of money and hopelessly naive.

For the record I personally don't believe this, but I recognize that this is what one is up against.

More and more will actually say it directly nowadays. They will say "it's about class, not race," and blah, blah to try to couch it but it is what it is.

They are not unteachable, though traditional methods do not tend to be effective among economically challenged students, as we of course know. You could probably go back to the little red one room school house on the prairie that great, great, great grandfather Shamus went to and find pretty much the exact same curriculum that the CPS employs today, including the summer-off schedule so he could go help the family with the corn.

Creative teaching methods will be needed to end the cycle. I'm talking about year round school years, early childhood intervention, longer school days, strong after-school programs, and the most qualified teachers in the State teaching the lowest performing kids. The question is when we'll do it.

[noplacelike]

I'm glad to hear something is keeping Chicago from 'taking off for good'. Sorry the schools have to be it.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

The problems with CPS are some % the student body/the parents, and some close-to-equal % the bureaucracy.

. . .

Read Jorvasky's recent articles - but a large number of overpaid administrators (ie, political hire hacks) and starving schools of money they are rightfully due via the TIF swindle is a massive part of the problem.

And what percentage role do the teachers themselves play? Or are we to believe that the societal values that created an otherwise systemic fustercluck out of our education system managed to leave this one blameless and unassailable layer in the middle?

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

oh, did I also forget to mention those teachers who apparently mentally checked out of their jobs decades ago?

Teachers vs. teachers unions - chicagotribune.com

Ah... yes. Yes you did.

[Attrill]

This will obviously be a hard problem to fix. I think that making it easier to get rid of bad teachers is a step in the right direction, but you also have to look at who makes the decision that someone is a bad teacher and how teachers are evaluated.

Ideally a school administration will fire teachers who are just phoning it in, but in reality you will have some good teachers fired. Teachers who refuse to give a crappy student an A after the parents ***** like crazy to the Principal, teachers who think they should teach more than just standards tests, and teachers who don't follow whatever that year's miracle curriculum is will be fired along with the slackers. Evaluating the quality of a teacher is a hard thing to do.

To some degree the failure of education in the US is due to tenure, but I think that the obsession with standardized tests is much more to blame. I've always kicked ass on standardized tests, but my sister sucked at them. She went on to get a PHD and is a published author, I'm certainly doing fine for myself, but she is definitely a smarter person than I am academically. I have major problems with the reliance we currently have on standardized tests.

[Sodium]

What would improve Chicago schools?

1) Paying more to the best teachers, to attract and keep them in the profession
2) Fire bad teachers. Empower principals to fire bad teachers.
3) Get the city, state and federal bureaucrats completely out of the process
4) Eliminate district curriculum departments that force lunatic ivory tower disasters on the kids. Get rid of Whole Language reading instruction, constructivist math, gee-whiz science, stark'n'dark literature, and history as a series of oppressions, and return to actually teaching.
5) Let parents decide which school is best for each of their own children. Competition promotes a quest for improvement.
6) Provide either a voucher or tax-credit to ALL families with children, which then can be used to enroll their children at ANY school, so that not only the financially well-off can have good schools for their kids.

Now, to answer the posted question, "Why Can't Chicago Shape Up Its Public Schools?"
Because Chicago isn't doing ***ANY*** of those things.