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Old 09-03-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,827,427 times
Reputation: 2459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
So blacks that want to live around other blacks get a pass on the racist card don't they? There are plenty of black people that do not want to live around white people. Are they racist?
Considering that when blacks historically moved into white neighborhoods, white folks first greeted them with violence and then eventually packed up and left, this seems like an unjustified complaint.

The legitimate reason black folks tend to be wary of white people moving in "their" neighborhood is due to the socioeconomic angle, as Attril notes.

Black people aren't stupid - there's an easily observable pattern that when white people start showing up their days are numbered, and it's not because they hate white folks.

Studies have consistently shown that an "ideal" neighborhood for white folks is maybe 10 - 15% black. Black folks on the other hand have consistently shown that they want to live in diverse areas, which is of shown by the history - think of the black folks who first moved into the white ethnic neighborhoods, they had more courage than any of us will ever understand.

This might make it a bit more real for you:

The Siege on South Peoria Street | Feature | Chicago Reader

All that said, everyone could be a bit more tolerant of those different from themselves. But we have gay & black neighborhoods due to histories of oppression & violence, these neighborhoods were established because the people weren't welcomed by the majority.

To be sure, regular working class white folks got burned in this whole deal as well - I'm sure it was not without a lot of hesitation & misery that people uprooted themselves from their social networks, churches their communities had built, etc. History seems to show that redlining & unscrupulous business people fanned the flames on all sides, as it was profitable.

So, although times have changed (my generation onward could not fathom segregation as an acceptable legal practice), this is a legacy issue we have to deal with.

As for "conservative" Chicago - the problem is the lockstep, one-party mentality here. Daley is pretty much a Republican on numerous issues, but otoh he's also certainly more enlightened than his dad was on issues of race.

My take is we really do need another party here in Chicago, but the GOP is going to be hard-pressed to make inroads, as on the national level they've been just awful for large urban areas since Nixon.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,585 posts, read 27,435,597 times
Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
...The legitimate reason black folks tend to be wary of white people moving in "their" neighborhood is due to the socioeconomic angle...
Then there is nothing less "legitimate" about whites being wary of black folks moving into "their" neighborhoods because of the "socioeconomic angle" either. Be consistent with your argument.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,827,427 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
Then there is nothing less "legitimate" about whites being wary of black folks moving into "their" neighborhoods because of the "socioeconomic angle" either. Be consistent with your argument.
Show me a poor white neighborhood where wealthier black professionals are moving in, driving up housing costs, and the poor whites are forced out & I will happily concede that point.

But I won't hold my breath.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,585 posts, read 27,435,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Show me a poor white neighborhood where wealthier black professionals are moving in, driving up housing costs, and the poor whites are forced out & I will happily concede that point.

But I won't hold my breath.
You do not get it. I do not think you ever will.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,827,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
You do not get it. I do not think you ever will.
I'll take that as a "I got nothin'"
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,827,427 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
Then there is nothing less "legitimate" about whites being wary of black folks moving into "their" neighborhoods because of the "socioeconomic angle" either. Be consistent with your argument.
To try and explain this a little more precisely to you, there weren't any historically black neighborhoods.

There isn't any example of white people moving in a black neighborhood and the black people first burning down their homes, then using legal steps to discriminate against them (redlining), then finally leaving en masse.

That's why your argument is bunk.

That doesn't excuse a lot of social problems in poor black neighborhoods in 2010, but the larger context does help explain them.

That's an important difference you'd do well to better understand.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,478,478 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
So blacks that want to live around other blacks get a pass on the racist card don't they? There are plenty of black people that do not want to live around white people. Are they racist?
When did I say they get a free pass?

I think they're racist, too.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,585 posts, read 27,435,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
When did I say they get a free pass?

I think they're racist, too.
I did not mean you said that. I was just framing the discussion.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,585 posts, read 27,435,597 times
Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
To try and explain this a little more precisely to you, there weren't any historically black neighborhoods...
Bronzeville and parts of other neighborhoods on the south side have been majority black for well over 80 years.

The "Black Belt" or "Black Ghetto" :

"In 1920 the African American population in Chicago was 109,894....Geographically, the Second and Third Wards were bounded by 22nd Street on the north and 51st Street on the south and Cottage Grove on the east and the Rock Island Railroad on the west..."

http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/171.html
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,478,478 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
I did not mean you said that. I was just framing the discussion.
Fine. But just so we're clear on exactly what I mean and don't mean: I have no respect for someone who wishes to surround themselves with those racially homogenous to themselves. I don't care what your motive or reasoning is. I don't care if you're scared or apathetic or just hesitant to change. I don't care if you are white or black or any other race or ethnicity.

That does not mean that I think every person who lives in a majority white or black or whatever neighborhood is racist. Your family might have lived in the area for generations; you might have moved there for the schools or the cultural amenties; you might have moved to be near your family. There are many and varied reasons for choosing a place to live. But if racial makeup is the main factor in your decision to live in a place, then to me, you are racist.

I hope that's clear.
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