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Old 09-05-2013, 06:47 PM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,882,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
^^^^Read the entire thread and although these posts^^^ are almost 3 years old - they are worth
repeating. Also, I didn't realize that some college educated professionals are now considered "blue collar"
such as teachers.
When the public schools come through Illinois State and Chicago State - not the best schools, no offense intended - and recruit the bottom third of the classes, it does give teaching a blue collar feel :-(

How about recruiting some "A" students from Big Ten and private schools? And then making some effort to keep them from quitting after 2 years?
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
When the public schools come through Illinois State and Chicago State - not the best schools, no offense intended - and recruit the bottom third of the classes, it does give teaching a blue collar feel :-(

How about recruiting some "A" students from Big Ten and private schools? And then making some effort to keep them from quitting after 2 years?
Are you saying that teachers who have been hired in Chicago are all coming from those 2 schools & are
at the bottom of their class. Don't Chicago Public Schools require a Masters Degree? The NCLB act
as well as RTT has deterred many potential candidates towards the profession.
Regarding recruiting A students from Big Ten and private schools check out the Education forum
which might give you some reasons and answers to that question.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
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I will say that when I graduated with a teaching degree from UIUC in the early 90s, the career counselor actually told me "Why would you want to teach in CPS?"

Sadly, he may have had a point. I was out of the system after a year, this was pre-Vallas, and I had no commitment for continued employment after the school year ended, the principal never followed through with a promise to get me properly certified to teach Special Ed, which is what I had been teaching full time as a cadre sub. And then CPS went and canned numerous teachers who all had 1 - 3 years of experience. I had to get a job to pay rent/bills, and when someone finally called me to follow up later that fall I decided I had had enough of the system.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,793 posts, read 4,585,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
When the public schools come through Illinois State and Chicago State - not the best schools, no offense intended
Maybe it's just the ones I know, but I've known way more CPS teachers from Northwestern, U of C, DePaul (especially DePaul), etc., and they all have master's degrees. I don't think I've ever met a single person (CPS teacher or otherwise) who went to Illinois State or Chicago State.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
This discussion is getting a little overheated. Roscoe Village or whatever you want to call it is a middle to upper middle class neighborhood. The super rich wouldn't be caught dead there -
There's a lot of room in between "middle to upper middle class" and "super rich." The only people I've known who lived in Roscoe Village were a family of four with an income in the mid-six-figures (perhaps not super rich, but not middle class and probably not even upper middle class). They lived there until leaving the city this year and didn't appear to be alone in their demographic there.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:39 AM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,882,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
Are you saying that teachers who have been hired in Chicago are all coming from those 2 schools & are
at the bottom of their class.
No, not all. Enough to create a popular stereotype. Please don't ask me for data, I don't have any.

Quote:
Don't Chicago Public Schools require a Masters Degree?
No.

Quote:
The NCLB act as well as RTT has deterred many potential candidates towards the profession.
There's that too.

Why don't we abandon the industrial model of hiring for public school teachers and move toward the guild model used in universities? Despite some degree of unionization and some dissatisfaction with the quality of college teaching, the results aren't half bad. Our university system is the envy of the world and one of our biggest exports (through foreign student fees paid to U.S. universities).
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:32 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 6,195,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Why don't we abandon the industrial model of hiring for public school teachers and move toward the guild model used in universities? Despite some degree of unionization and some dissatisfaction with the quality of college teaching, the results aren't half bad. Our university system is the envy of the world and one of our biggest exports (through foreign student fees paid to U.S. universities).
Well, there are several reasons but that would be a long read. Teaching K-12 is much different than teaching in a university. Examples, special needs students (physically and mentally handicapped) and learning styles.
University professors are not overwhelmed with adjusting their teaching methods to those.
I've known many university professors who did not know how to teach either. Also universities
often hire grad students while the undergrads are paying full price for a course they assumed would be
taught by an experienced professor. BTW, my experience and examples are all from a top 10 university.
If a 30 year old Picasso or Einstein were to apply at any university today - there is no way they
would be hired unless they had a MFA or a Doctorate.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,793 posts, read 4,585,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
No.
Are you sure about that? I've never met a CPS teacher who didn't have a master's degree. If they don't require a master's right off the bat they apparently at least require enough continuing education for most of them to end up having graduate degrees by the time they're in their late 20's. It could be that I'm meeting a very skewed sample of teachers, but I doubt it.

Last edited by nearnorth; 09-07-2013 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,793 posts, read 4,585,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Why don't we abandon the industrial model of hiring for public school teachers and move toward the guild model used in universities?
Unfortunately that model is being rapidly abandoned by universities, who are increasingly taking a more business-oriented approach of maximizing revenue and minimizing overhead at all costs. This means classes are increasingly taught by adjuncts, "visiting" profs, "lecturers", etc., all of whom earn next to nothing (far less than CPS teachers) and most of whom will never be tenure-track faculty. The bean counters are doing their best to destroy the university tenure model just like their public education counterparts are trying to do to teacher's unions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Our university system is the envy of the world
For now. Unfortunately I think we're coasting on reputation in some ways. China and others are working to learn and implement the best aspects of American education (teaching creativity and critical thinking, which have been historically lacking in their approach), and will eventually be powerful enough that they don't need the name recognition of American universities anymore. Their own will work just fine.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:04 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 6,195,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nearnorth View Post
Unfortunately that model is being rapidly abandoned by universities, who are increasingly taking a more business-oriented approach of maximizing revenue and minimizing overhead at all costs. This means classes are increasingly taught by adjuncts, "visiting" profs, "lecturers", etc., all of whom earn next to nothing (far less than CPS teachers) and most of whom will never be tenure-track faculty. The bean counters are doing their best to destroy the university tenure model just like their public education counterparts are trying to do to teacher's unions.
For now. Unfortunately I think we're coasting on reputation in some ways. China and others are working to learn and implement the best aspects of American education (teaching creativity and critical thinking, which have been historically lacking in their approach), and will eventually be powerful enough that they don't need the name recognition of American universities anymore. Their own will work just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearnorth View Post
Are you sure about that? I've never met a CPS teacher who didn't have a master's degree. If they don't require a master's right off the bat they apparently at least require enough continuing education for most of them to end up having graduate degrees by the time they're in their late 20's. It could be that I'm meeting a very skewed sample of teachers, but I doubt it.
^^^^^I'd rep you 1000 points if I could. You nailed it exactly. My son did his student teaching in
Chicago and the majority of the teachers in that school had a Masters. I also knew several brilliant
professors with a doctorate who were only hired as "visiting professors" for 1-2 years and had to move
around the country to find a position - any position which ended up paying next to nothing.
BTW, I was a public school teacher with a Masters.
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