white family moving to Humboldt park. advice? (Chicago, Berwyn: renting, townhome)

[j33]

Originally Posted by DADASGIRL

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I am a firm believer that if you have no reason to interact with the criminal element - then the criminal element wont interact with you. Lets face it - if you're not a drug user, if you're not shooting dice in the alley, if you're not looking to buy/trade illegal or stolen property - then the liklihood of "something terrible" happening simply b/c you live in the area is SMALL.

Tell that to the people who robbed my apartment, broke into my car, and the people who have mugged and threatened to kill my friends over the years. Often, bad things happen, regardless of whether or not you are interacting with any sort of criminal element.

[nikitakolata]

Originally Posted by sarahdeanne

First let me state that I have been through many of the related threads and have some information and opinions already but want some advice specific to our situation. Also, politeness and informed opinions are appreciated.

My husband got a great job in the loop and we are moving to the area with three little ones in just over a month. I have been knee deep in Chicago neighborhood research so I recognize street/neighborhood names. My questions pertain to an apartment I am looking at on the south west corner of the actual park (on Kedzie). I know this is not portrayed as the safest area and we are not the type of family to be scared off by that but here are some of my thoughts and concerns.

1) Money: We are not millionaires but we could definitely afford to live in another (higher priced) area. We are looking at Humboldt park because we are interested in committing ourselves to a community and want to be a part of seeing things change for the better wherever we go. However, If we choose to get a place in HP we would want to make the most of our money and get a BIG nice apt. Might this make us stand out as a target for theft, vandalism etc.? We anticipate paying between 1500-2000/month. Are there a good number of nicer homes like this or will we be the only ones on the street?

2) Whiteness: I see that white people are a minority in the area. This is not a big deal to us. We live in an area in Tulsa now with a high Mexican and Black population and love it. The issue is that we would like to be a PART of our community. We do not want to move in and offend everyone around us. In your experience, will a white family be welcomed by the surrounding community? will they be targeted for violence? will they be avoided, ignored or does it matter?

Also accepting suggestions for other areas to live but we are not interested in driving everyday or living in the suburbs. Schools are not so much an issue as we teach our little ones at home.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I'm white and I live in Humboldt Park, but I wouldn't move to the area you mentioned. I actually think that based on what you wrote you may like living in Humboldt Park on the east side of the park. That is the area I live in, and it has a pretty nice mix of people right now. I have some neighbors that are really friendly and nice and I think we all get along well.

We had a window broken about a year and a half ago, but no one entered the house (except the police) and nothing was stolen. I also had my garage broken into around the same time, but that guy was caught in the act and we only lost an mp3 player (probably would have gotten it back had we noticed it was missing though). That's the extent of the trouble we have had and nothing has happened since those events.

I used to not feel the safest in HP, but lately I haven't been worried at all. Maybe I'm just used to the area now, or maybe it has improved; I couldn't really say for certain which it is, but maybe it's a combination of both. I have been talking to my neighbors more though, which I'm happy about, and no one has been hostile or anything.

I think you could find some excellent values in the east part of Humboldt Park. The area I am in is bound by Division, California, Western and North. There are 3 buildings on my block being renovated now, which I think is a good sign. There are some duplex condos for sale in the $150,000 range that have 3 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, granite, stainless, etc. (so I am going to assume rents are going to be a good value as well, I haven't looked at that much).

I would also look at the area between Western, California, North and Armitage. The blocks up there have some very nice houses and they're closer to the Blue Line which your husband will appreciate. But, getting to the train is really easy if you're farther south too, because of the Western Ave. bus; I walk when the weather is nice and use the bus when it's not and I don't think my commute is bad at all (I work in the loop).

[ParkerP]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Well isn't that white of you.

lmao Tom!

Anyhoo, Sarah I agree with Chet that you should probably consider hyde park mostly because although you do plan to homeschool, you certainly don't want the kids inside all day and hyde park may have more kid-centric indoor/outdoor activities than humboldt park. However, I am saying this as someone who has never been to humboldt park so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[quigboto]

The park itself (Humboldt) is quite safe in the daytime. I walk my dog there every day, including the area around Division and Kedzie. There is a playground right around there. I never see anything untoward in the daylight hours. With summer coming though, the park will be more crowded, and I would be more on guard then.

[The_Fury_of_Chad]

It really depends on the exact street. I have some friends who live in Humboldt Park and they'll tel lyou that some streets are extremely dangerous while others are completely safe. I don't no about Kedzie though. Maybe just try asking the other people that live there.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

I think the problem in Chicago that is that it's very rare for middle-income white folks to move into lower/lower-middle class latino or black neighborhoods without those folks suspecting that the ulterior motive ("the neighborhood is on the way up") is that the latino/black folks will be leaving soon.

And for good reason. No matter how well-meaning anyone is about improving their neighborhood, in Chicago improving a neighborhood automatically leads to higher property values and thus higher property taxes (as we have no municipal income tax, and property taxes fund public schools).

So no matter what your desires are & how involved you get with your neighbors, the reality on the street is that unless "improvement" has a concrete correlation to more and better-paying jobs, the existing neighbors will slowly be driven out, and may resent those they see as being part of the market forces that did so.

All that said, it's a free country, and people should live where ever the hell they want.

Couple that with the fact that the vast percentage of these rare middle-income white folks move to neighborhoods that are subject to gentrification speculation and you can see that 9/10, these concerns are fact based. You probably won't find, for example, many such "pioneers" moving to Englewood or Garfield Park.

They almost always move to a place where there are signs that times will be a changin'. However, this usually only angers other white folks and a few neighborhood activists, who are terminally aggrieved and think they're performing some sort of public service by keeping property values in the toilet. Most of the general population will say thanks but no thanks to these sorts of views, as they like the prospect of lower crime, higher property values, no thugs selling dope on the corner, and an actual grocery store. When I lived in Logan Square pre-gentrification, the neighbors loved us. I understood why.

It is what it is. In a perfect world, we'd all live together in harmony and be evenly disbursed. In reality, this is not how things work. Personally, I'm all for the revitalization of any kind of urban community. Would we rather the OP move out to Plainfield just to be "safe?" Or move into an area like Humbolt Park and help with its revitalization? I'd choose the latter any day.

Some people, even those with kids, have different fear levels. Some tremble at sending little Johnny to any school that scored lower than the top 10% on the ISAT, and will sacrifice pretty much anything to get there -- size of home, sense of community, debt to asset ratio, etc. Others are willing to home school or send their children to a "lesser" school and stay involved. Who are we to judge? I say good luck to the original poster.

[xavier xerxes]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

I wouldn't move there personally. I've been through that area only once but was shocked at how ghetto it feels in every way, and I've been living in not-perfect parts of Chicago for years.

If you want black and Mexican and white, you should check out West Town, but don't live on Elizabeth Street.

That part of Humboldt Park is just north of the heart of badness of East Garfield Park. No wonder its so ghetto.....

[Chitownohioan]

You should check out Pilsen. Pilsen is cool

[nowincal11]

Pilsen is also not exactly the safest of neighborhoods. Ok, they have the arts district, but 90% of the homes for sale are not in the arts district. Pilsen is middle class, but happens to have one of the largest gang populations in the city spread over almost a dozen different gangs, which is more than Humboldt Park. It just so happens that many Pilsen gang bangers have square jobs too.

[nidex]

Well after 4 pages, I'm sure you got the general idea of what's going on that side of the park. I'll just add that the summer before last, I was taking a late night (maybe 10 or 11pm) stroll down Kedzie from Grand to North, and was solicited to buy weed a total of three times, in that short 7-8 block walk. Had I been looking to buy weed, I would have found no short supply. However, that does show the extent of the drug activity in the neighborhood... and I'm sure it doesn't stop at marijuana.