Where will the next high crime neighborhoods be?

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Attrill

But it is the city's concern. Having every troublemaker in CPS out wandering the streets year round would certainly raise some problems.

I do agree that it is one of the main reasons it's hard for CPS to be successful, and also retain good students. Something has to be done with them, and just throwing them in jail will make them bigger thugs than they already are.

Jail is definitely not the answer, so why not put them to work doing the kinds of lousy jobs we reserve for people on work-release?

I'd think a few weeks would go a long way towards learning the value of an education.

This is the problem with framing education as an entitlement as opposed to framing as an investment and a social compact.

Nobody is entitled to be educated by society, as it places the burden on the wrong party, and as we can't actually force people to comply.

It's no different than the same way nobody is entitled to be a virtuoso, even though society may very decide it is a good investment to provide everyone to at least some period of musical instruction and an instrument during their school years.

I agree with Tom it's just unsustainable for society to take a class of 28 kids (and a paid municipal employee) and waste their time catering to that one or two who just can't **** and behave.

Some call it "throwing them under the bus," but I'd say it's a free country, and if some kids insist on throwing themselves under the bus, that's part of the deal of having freedom.

[aragx6]

At what age do we throw them out? Many of them act up as early as elementary. I think we can all agree it's not just because the kid is a "bad seed" You can't throw 11 year olds out on their asses can you? Are we suggesting 16?

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by aragx6

At what age do we throw them out? Many of them act up as early as elementary. I think we can all agree it's not just because the kid is a "bad seed" You can't throw 11 year olds out on their asses can you? Are we suggesting 16?

Don't focus on an age, focus on *extreme* bad behavior.

You may not know what is really going on in the worse schools at CPS - I saw boys in 7th grade literally grabbing girls and fondling their breasts when I was subbing around the west side.

If there was an 11 year old in a class with my daughter behaving that way you can bet I'd want them removed from class - (editing) - no, we can't just put them out on the street, but I see no problem with giving kids an option that is more labor-intensive. The reality I saw is a lot of these kids would be far better off blowing off steam than being boxed in a small room and an uncomfortable desk.

Let's be frank about what we're trying to retrofit here, the entire model of a big-city American classroom leaves a lot to be desired across the board, as it has its roots in the Industrial Revolution and breaking the spirits of immigrant kids so they'd be better little factory drones. No joke - I learned that in Education classes at college, it's well documented.

[aragx6]

Removed from general matriculation, perhaps, but expelled from school at 12 or 13 with no other means to get oneself even the most basic of educations? That doesn't seem destined to change anything for the better.

[nikitakolata]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Removed from general matriculation, perhaps, but expelled from school at 12 or 13 with no other means to get oneself even the most basic of educations? That doesn't seem destined to change anything for the better.

I can't speak for the original posters, but I think the idea is more that these kids would be put in something more labor intensive until they demonstrate that they understand why they were removed from school and exhibit some desire to actually get an education.

Seriously, some of the children in our school system are just more of a problem than any teacher can possibly handle. I have a friend who is a CPS teacher and she has a boy in her class that defecates in his pants nearly every single day. She teaches middle school, btw, and NOT special ed. This kid is in a regular CPS classroom. There's just no way a single teacher is equipped to handle issues that run this deep, and this child obviously does not care about learning anything.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Attrill

But it is the city's concern. Having every troublemaker in CPS out wandering the streets year round would certainly raise some problems.

The city's concern but not the school system's. One problem at a time; we can fix the schools by getting rid of the bums and we should, then we worry about the jerks now being on the streets.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Removed from general matriculation, perhaps, but expelled from school at 12 or 13 with no other means to get oneself even the most basic of educations? That doesn't seem destined to change anything for the better.

Let's face it; there's not going to be any better life for most such people in any event. At least prevent them from dragging down the entire system.

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by Aleking

Logan Sqaure or other marginal places like Pilsen, Rogers Park and Uptown are one thing, but you really can't compare them to the war zones on the south and west sides. The drivers for change simply aren't there and those places will never even partially gentrify unless some truley radical and probably controversial moves are made.

If you consider Logan Square a marginal place then it's no wonder that you consider the south and west side to be a war zone and have no hope for large chunks of Chicago.

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by Savoir Faire

If you consider Logan Square a marginal place then it's no wonder that you consider the south and west side to be a war zone and have no hope for large chunks of Chicago.

It's pretty much textbook, lots of nice areas and good blue line access. I really like the 'hood and most of the areas have even more room to improve, but still pretty gangland on the western edge (an area with little hope because of poor el access). It's a neighborhood on the margin between endless crap south and nicer hoods south and east.