Is Chicago Underpopulated? (Humboldt, Norwood, Time: public schools, zoning, costs)

[Vlajos]

It's spilled into the near south and west side.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by FAReastcoast

As an outsider, it seems that many of the North Side neighborhoods (mainly along the Lake), are a place where fresh out of college to early 30's crowd moves, then heads back to where they came from. It is nothing more than a cycle, and in some years, more will move in than move out and in others the opposite happens. Much of the North Side seems to have a fairly stable population, with no big spikes either way.

Exactly.

FWIW, I hope I'm not giving the impression I'm giving up on the south and west sides, I'm just saying that efforts to repopulate them anywhere remotely approaching north side density "standards" is gonna be one tough slog.

And that might very well be more easily accomplished by luring people from outside Chicago altogether than trying to coax north siders to those areas.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

It's spilled into the near south and west side.

what is the "it" you are referring to?

if you mean gentrification, re: the west loop & south loop, absolutely.

but given the surplus of housing in those areas, we aren't going to be seeing any higher-density housing added to the south and west sides any time soon. The public housing teardowns aren't getting replaced by buildings of equal density. I mean, that's the understatement of the millennium.

so who is going to move into the housing stock that is already underutilized?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

A 25,000 increase for the entire north side is negligible in a conversation that began with someone hypothesizing what it would take to get over 2 MILLION people into Chicago.

Way to move the goalposts.

You said by your recollection the population of the north side did not increase during the 1990s through 2000s. Just be big enough to admit you were mistaken and move on.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

what is the "it" you are referring to?

if you mean gentrification, re: the west loop & south loop, absolutely.

but given the surplus of housing in those areas, we aren't going to be seeing any higher-density housing added to the south and west sides any time soon. The public housing teardowns aren't getting replaced by buildings of equal density. I mean, that's the understatement of the millennium.

so who is going to move into the housing stock that is already underutilized?

The population of the Near South Side and Near West Side had explosive growth over the last decade. 125% and 18% respectively.

[Dncr]

Yes, Chicago is underpopulated, but to what degree? I'd be happy with a Chicago with about 3,400,000-3,500,000 residents. That's about 15,000 people per square mile, and in my opinion is fairly realistic without this whole rebuild the entirety of the south and west sides discussions that's happening right now.

Large swaths of the south and west sides are going to be on the decline for the foreseeable future, at least in my opinion. Rebuilding and populating that massive of a land area in a region that isn't experiencing double digit growth is going to take a while, and as other posters have said, while the population may be increasing on the north side, a lot of those people are in Chicago for the short term.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Drover

Way to move the goalposts.

You said by your recollection the population of the north side did not increase during the 1990s through 2000s. Just be big enough to admit you were mistaken and move on.

Moving goalposts? Try staying on topic, Captain Irony.

Am I not in agreement that the population went up?

The fact is that the amount of the increase was certainly less than 1%. As I said, negligible in terms of total numbers.

Even so, to go back to your first post which spurred this conversation:

^^ Anyone can make vague predictions. But one thing that hasn't changed over the last half a century is that middle-class families with kids to educate are still leaving the city, I see nothing to suggest that will suddenly change in 5 or 10 years. Or 20 or 30.

Spend some time on cpsobsessed.com, because you started with a false hypothesis and are still back-pedaling.

Middle-class families are in abundance all over the north side - they are just smaller families than they were earlier in the City's history.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Moving goalposts? Try staying on topic, Captain Irony.

Am I not in agreement that the population went up?

I can't tell if you are or not since you keep changing your story/tune/whatever. If you can't even keep up with your own posts, don't expect I can either.

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

The fact is that the amount of the increase was certainly less than 1%. As I said, negligible in terms of total numbers.

Some basic math lessons appear to be in order. Consult your local community college.

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Even so, to go back to your first post which spurred this conversation:

^^ Anyone can make vague predictions. But one thing that hasn't changed over the last half a century is that middle-class families with kids to educate are still leaving the city, I see nothing to suggest that will suddenly change in 5 or 10 years. Or 20 or 30.

Spend some time on cpsobsessed.com, because you started with a false hypothesis and are still back-pedaling.

Middle-class families are in abundance all over the north side - they are just smaller families than they were earlier in the City's history.

Actually that post was made 4 months ago so how it spurred "this" conversation that started a few days ago, I'm not sure. Nonetheless, those who were DINKS until recently but suddenly have kids to educate are still leaving the city almost as fast as the new wave of DINKs can replace them. Great that some aren't; a whole flock still are, every year. And that's not going to change until there are fundamental changes in the CPS system and/or the demographic it serves.

Go ahead and have the last word. We both know you absolutely must.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Drover

I can't tell if you are or not since you keep changing your story/tune/whatever. If you can't even keep up with your own posts, don't expect I can either.


Some basic math lessons appear to be in order. Consult your local community college.


Actually that post was made 4 months ago so how it spurred "this" conversation that started a few days ago, I'm not sure. Nonetheless, those who were DINKS until recently but suddenly have kids to educate are still leaving the city almost as fast as the new wave of DINKs can replace them. Great that some aren't; a whole flock still are, every year. And that's not going to change until there are fundamental changes in the CPS system and/or the demographic it serves.

Go ahead and have the last word. We both know you absolutely must.

where's the drama queen icon?

anyway, I'm pointing out that you're actually the one propagating conflicting info, so I'm just trying to figure out what in tarnation your point is (a questionable assumption on my part).

yes, the north side gained a whopping 25,000 folks. but according to you, middle-class families are leaving in droves due to the sad state of the schools.

so your hypothesis is this growth is due to DINKs? really?

the fact of the matter is that a lot of middle-class families seem to be paying a lot more attention to their local schools thanks to the lousy housing market, which has left many people underwater who thought they were going to flip their properties for a nice profit and get a place in the burbs.

the CPS improvement (an unintended consequence, to be sure) is definitely the silver lining there.

before you spout off more silliness on the schools, do you actually have any children in them?

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

It's spilled into the near south and west side.

Parts of the West Side gentrification spilled over to are now being redefined by some as part of the North Side. Same with the South Loop which some realtors are now calling the South North Side. The big plan is to eventually do away with the West Side and extend the North Side to Hyde Park but only east along the Lake you understand; the Blacks, Mexicans, ethnic Whites and other untermenschen to the west can then have the South Side to themselves. Humboldt Park, Austin, Garfield Park and Lawndale will be reclassified as the South Side. Jefferson Park and Norwood Park too, they're just not cool enough to be North Side anymore. Sorry.