Is Chicago Underpopulated? (Oak Park, Park Ridge, Bridgeport: transplants, income, property taxes)

[chicago103]

Originally Posted by Drover

If the schools in these outer neighborhoods are so great, the city wouldn't have to force its employees to live in them. We know damn well what would happen if the residency requirement were lifted. While quite a few would still send their kids to Catholic schools even if they had the option to live in the suburbs, it stands to reason that many of the rest who live in these outer neighborhoods would jump at the chance to send their kids to suburban schools if they could.

The residency requirement was in place even before schools became bad and was started to be enforced in the 1950's when white flight began to the suburbs because of the GI bill and not because of bad schools, the residency requirement had nothing to do with forcing people into schools and furthermore we are not talking about some hypothetical scenario, the fact is they are stable middle class neighborhoods and many have decent to good CPS schools in them. Unless you are one of those people who thinks you should never live in a place even when there is a remote possibility a residency requirement being dropped would cause a place to tank, that is the exact chicken little lemmings jumping off of cliffs group think mentality that was responsible for white flight and it should be called out for what it is. Ignorant conformist thinking exists, if you have a problem with confronting that reality than that is your problem. Also many people move to the suburbs for reasons other than the schools, some want that 3,000 square foot McMansion on a half acre lot with two huge SUV's, harder to do in the city and then they just use the schools as an excuse to justify their decisions or they believe children must be raised in huge houses with huge yards and some city workers have that same mentality and would chose that if they had a choice. It has less to do with the schools as it does to wanting the supersized suburban lifestyle, the schools are secondary in choosing outer neighborhoods over the suburbs. Many people with granite counter tops and huge living rooms in Naperville will talk about how they can't afford to live in the city but what they really mean is that they couldn't have as much of a bling bling lifestyle in the city as out there, they feel modest brick bungalows are beneath them.

[Drover]

So yeah, like I said, the schools aren't good enough to keep a lot of people in these neighborhoods if they had the chance to live elsewhere. You can frame that choice as derisively as you'd like, but it's still a choice that many would make if the residency requirement were lifted.

[chicago103]

Originally Posted by Drover

So yeah, like I said, the schools aren't good enough to keep a lot of people in these neighborhoods if they had the chance to live elsewhere. You can frame that choice as derisively as you'd like, but it's still a choice that many would make if the residency requirement were lifted.

As I said it often has little or even nothing to do with the schools in the first place. If people want a super sized suburban life a Chicago neighborhood could have one of the best schools in the whole state (like some do) and they still wouldn't want to live there and you were the one who brought up the residency requirement. Are you saying people should not raise kids in a neighborhood just because some people wouldn't be living there if the residency requirement didn't exist? Do you think it is a virtue for people to sit around and think "gee I wonder if some people wouldn't be living here if conditions or laws were different, gee maybe this isn't such a great place, maybe I should move?" That's group think. You proved nothing. Also I originally was talking about how the middle class could easily live in Chicago because you said the middle class cannot afford to live in Chicago. This has nothing to do with what some people prefer or not I am talking about ability and the fact it is really much easier to raise kids in the city than is commonly perceived, you have really said nothing to counter that. Frankly I don't even know what your agenda is. Also your logic taken to an absurdity is quite funny, I guess everyone thinks everyplace in the world they could live besides where they do live doesn't have good enough schools to have them move there. Many parents could move to Texas but I guess those that don't feel the schools aren't good enough. Parents in my neighborhood don't live in Naperville and thus the Naperville schools must not be good enough to prompt them to move there. See how easily I can turn the tables?

[chirack]

Originally Posted by chicago103

As I said it often has little or even nothing to do with the schools in the first place. If people want a super sized suburban life a Chicago neighborhood could have one of the best schools in the whole state (like some do) and they still wouldn't want to live there and you were the one who brought up the residency requirement. Are you saying people should not raise kids in a neighborhood just because some people wouldn't be living there if the residency requirement didn't exist? Do you think it is a virtue for people to sit around and think "gee I wonder if some people wouldn't be living here if conditions or laws were different, gee maybe this isn't such a great place, maybe I should move?" That's group think. You proved nothing. Also I originally was talking about how the middle class could easily live in Chicago because you said the middle class cannot afford to live in Chicago. This has nothing to do with what some people prefer or not I am talking about ability and the fact it is really much easier to raise kids in the city than is commonly perceived, you have really said nothing to counter that. Frankly I don't even know what your agenda is.

Ah , you could send your kid to private school and save money esp. when the price of housing gets into the $300,000+ range. What they want is a big house, big yard and more nature. They also like lower crime(which in general high income plus low density equals lower crime). However I think the fears of crime are often way out of proportion to the actual danger.

[chicago103]

Originally Posted by chirack

Ah , you could send your kid to private school and save money esp. when the price of housing gets into the $300,000+ range. What they want is a big house, big yard and more nature. They also like lower crime(which in general high income plus low density equals lower crime). However I think the fears of crime are often way out of proportion to the actual danger.

Yes there are other factors besides schools that prompt families with kids to move places. There is ignorance of good city neighborhoods and schools but there also are just people who prefer something besides an urban existence. I just wish people would be honest and not say "I can't afford to live in the city", if they just said "I want a big house and a huge yard on the cheap" I would be like ok, that is your choice.

[Vlajos]

Wildwood, Sauganash, Edgebrook and Edison Park are all very good CPS schools. Most are now bursting at the seems because people are sending there kids there now instead of Catholic school.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Drover

No, they're familiar with those parts of the city -- and they're also familiar with the quality of the schools and/or the parochial-school alternatives in most of those neighborhoods.

I grew up in the now pretentiously-named "green zone" and the NW and SW sides were a mystery to all of us. Unless you had relatives or some other close personal connection, there was simply little reason at all why kids/adults in Lincoln Park, Lake View, etc. would ever be going to the outer edges of the City (O'Hare the exception, of course), and if you did you likely took the expressway and didn't pay much attention to the neighborhoods you were passing through.

So it's beyond a stretch to think that these kind of folks are out there doing a systemic analysis of every CPS and private school in these outlying areas.

Hell, I'd bet you the majority of people in Lincoln Park/LV could find Vietnam on a topographical map before they could find Oriole Park.

[Drover]

By the time you're looking in Oriole Park, you might as well be out in the suburbs anyway. Oriole Park gives you all of the headaches of still being in the city with no discernible benefits over living in a nearby suburb.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Drover

By the time you're looking in Oriole Park, you might as well be out in the suburbs anyway. Oriole Park gives you all of the headaches of still being in the city with no discernible benefits over living in a nearby suburb.

I've met people from Oriole Park, and they love it. Have you actually lived there? As one fellow I met a few years back said "it's like a slice of heaven with reasonable property taxes."

Schools are not the end-all-be-all some people assume they are.

Plenty of people either don't have kids, or would be sending their kids to a parochial school even if they lived in a nice suburb because that's how they want their children raised.

And while this isn't important to you or everyone, some people truly do value being in the City limits as they value being a Chicagoan. I am guilty as charged. I would rather deal with all sorts of urban hassles than have to grapple every morning with what I did wrong in life to end up stuck in some exurb, even if the house was huge and the schools were great.

You can have it all in Chicago if the "all" isn't purely materialistic/"keeping up with the Jones'," you just need to be smart.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

And while this isn't important to you or everyone, some people truly do value being in the City limits as they value being a Chicagoan. I am guilty as charged. I would rather deal with all sorts of urban hassles than have to grapple every morning with what I did wrong in life to end up stuck in some exurb, even if the house was huge and the schools were great.

FWIW, a lot of the inner suburbs offer a very Chicago-like experience but with better public schools. There's no need to live in an exurb. Granted property taxes (and possibly housing prices) will be significantly higher, so there is a trade-off there too.

If you live in Oak Park, you have a 20 minute commute by el to the Loop. How many Chicago neighborhoods can make that claim?