How Much Has Race Relations Changed in Chicago in the Last 15 Years? (Lincoln: violent crime, credit)

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Tex is very good at pointing out where the OP can be prejudiced against others based on class rather than be herself prejuduced against based on race.

Fair point, although I honestly had a hard time reading what you are saying.

I'm not really a classist at all, in fact quite the opposite.

Heres the thing:

Contemporary racism is largely intertwined with peoples perception of crime, and their perceived likelihood of being a victim of crime.

And although I never want to make excuses for those who commit any kind of crime, I believe in firm justice, but in the big picture (again no one decides to commit a violent crime based on class envy, I know that). but Americas, and particularly urban Americas crime is very much triggered by the disparities between the have and have nots.

In other societies maybe having the disparities are not a problem because they are grounded in tradition (birthright), this is not true, but in America where we have

a large disparity between the haves and have nots, with on top of that, where Americans for so long have been conditioned and brainwashed to believe that if you make $20,000 a year and you just work hard enough you too can one day become rich.

That is a recipe for high crime rate. It is wrapped up in class tensions and class envy. Because people will look to illicit ways to make that American dream come true. This is where organized crime comes into play, whether the mafia or whether small street gangs.

So, instead of being prejudiced against class, I really actually feel for those who are on the bottom, but at the same time acknowledging the sad reality that to have a completely objective view of that issue, you have to place yourself in a position where you don't start developing racial or ethnic stereotypes as to who commits crimes.

And living in a specific neighborhood where ethnic groups, white, black, brown, green, yellow of any kind are well off enough where they are not tempted to go down that road is a good place to live.

[JmanAA]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

...Also, Lincoln Park and to a lesser extent Lakeview have a lot of people that although love the diversity and vibrancy of the city, but many of them grew up in areas with low diversity and have very high standards and expectations for urban safety and have low tolerance for any BS, and that there may be instances where reactions from people in those neighborhoods (again Lincoln Park more so than Lakeview) may be interpreted as racial. They are not likely racist, but they prefer the already established already very safe, are interested in living in an urban environment that does NOT have an "edge"...

Well, maybe those people shouldn't live in the city. They can't have it both ways. If they choose to live in a large, urban city like Chicago, they have to accept everything about that city. I equate it to relationships. When you choose to get into a relationship with someone, you have to accept both the good AND the bad. You have to accept their strengths as well as their weaknesses. You have to accept their talents as well as their quirks. Same goes for choosing to live in a city. If they are disgusted with the "edge," then they need to move out to the suburbs where they'll get their "edge-less" environment.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by JmanAA

Well, maybe those people shouldn't live in the city. They can't have it both ways. If they choose to live in a large, urban city like Chicago, they have to accept everything about that city. I equate it to relationships. When you choose to get into a relationship with someone, you have to accept both the good AND the bad. You have to accept their strengths as well as their weaknesses. You have to accept their talents as well as their quirks. Same goes for choosing to live in a city. If they are disgusted with the "edge," then they need to move out to the suburbs where they'll get their "edge-less" environment.

What? No. Massive over-generalization.

It's one thing to embrace diversity and people from different cultures and backgrounds.

It's another altogether to suggest that in the City anything-goes and you just need to suck it up if you don't like it. That's not inherently urban, that's inherently weak and allowing yourself to be a doormat.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been in a lot of relationships if you think the standard operating procedure is to simply "accept" everything your partner does that drives you nuts.

We could start with simply the topic of whether it's OK to leave a toilet seat up - good luck ever getting the missus to go along with that.

[linicx]

We have a black member, a professional, who chose Oak Park as a place to raise a family. OP is the original diverse village. It was middle to upper income 40-years ago and today it is home to number of millionaire bachelors. Now Hyde Park seems to get a lot of good reps for diversity and unusual location. Streeterville is one of the most affluent areas in the city.

I have a sense that the segregation issue has changed since the 60s, as has the city itself.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by linicx

We have a black member, a professional, who chose Oak Park as a place to raise a family. OP is the original diverse village. It was middle to upper income 40-years ago and today it is home to number of millionaire bachelors. Now Hyde Park seems to get a lot of good reps for diversity and unusual location. Streeterville is one of the most affluent areas in the city.

I have a sense that the segregation issue has changed since the 60s, as has the city itself.

I agree 100%. As a friend of mine likes to say, it's a question of do you judge by incremental improvement, or by perfection (which may never have existed in the first place)?

[Irishtom29]

A fruitless search for perfection can get in the way of actually achieving good enough.

[NorCal Dude]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

A fruitless search for perfection can get in the way of actually achieving good enough.

And how.

[JmanAA]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

What? No. Massive over-generalization.

It's one thing to embrace diversity and people from different cultures and backgrounds.

From reading some of the posts in this Chicago forum, it seems the people in certain areas on the North side, particularly Lincoln Park, are not embracing people of different cultures and backgrounds, and that's sort of what I was addressing. I've been to Chicago several times and hung out on the North side, but I never made it to Lincoln Park, so I don't have any personal experience in that particular neighborhood to rely on.

It's another altogether to suggest that in the City anything-goes and you just need to suck it up if you don't like it. That's not inherently urban, that's inherently weak and allowing yourself to be a doormat.

That's not what I meant. Maybe I misinterpreted the post that I quoted, but it just seemed to me that the poster was implying that the people in Lincoln park and Lake View are very judgmental, and reject people based on superficial differences, even if there is no evidence that the person they're rejecting has done anything wrong.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been in a lot of relationships if you think the standard operating procedure is to simply "accept" everything your partner does that drives you nuts.

You're right, my relationship experience has been less than stellar, particularly given that I'm almost 30 years old. And yes, you can't tolerate intolerable behavior, period.

OK, I see what you mean. something does need to be done about the crime and the bad stuff going on in Chicago (I'm not a resident, I'm just weighing in), but it's when people start addressing things beyond character and troubling behavior, that a new set of problems arise. Through the posts I've read on this board, it seems there's been some problems with racial/ethnic/cultural tolerance in certain areas of Chicago. My point was, if these people really have a problem with diversity, then maybe they should live in a less-diverse and more homogenous town.

We could start with simply the topic of whether it's OK to leave a toilet seat up - good luck ever getting the missus to go along with that.

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by JmanAA

Through the posts I've read on this board, it seems there's been some problems with racial/ethnic/cultural tolerance in certain areas of Chicago. My point was, if these people really have a problem with diversity, then maybe they should live in a less-diverse and more homogenous town.

Just to cut to the chase, I'd say the entire City suffers from at minimum a mild case of intolerance. Any neighborhood that has any kind of established cultural/ethnic identity kind of by definition needs to try to keep that established, which on some level means you aren't accepting (or at least not actively encouraging) people different from yourselves to move in.

Chinatown. Do we think the Chinese are intolerant because they have clustered in one neighborhood?

Devon Street. Same question, Indians and Middle Easterners.

I could go on and on, but in general when I read about "intolerance" the setting seems to largely be social and to hinge on both alcohol and meeting people of the opposite sex.

I will tell you with 100% confidence that as a paleface dude I am not desired in a majority black or hispanic club, in the sense of hooking up. In a larger sense, guys in general don't want other guys in these settings - worsens the odds.

[ptug101]

I would say the best option would be evanston, close to the city,diverse
and pretty safe.

Otherwise you have to move to the suburbs, boilingbrook, lansing, olympia fields
or homewood floss moore.