IL pension reform. Thoughts? (Chicago, Springfield: appointed, real estate, crime)

[pvande55]

The pension system was probably designed to be very generous so the State could pay workers less in base salary, thus appearing to save money in the short term. I bet most of the politicians who set it up are dead, in jail, or collecting fat pensions now. On the other hand, if private sector employees could retire so early, we might not have an unemployment problem.

[It'sAutomatic]

I hate bloated public unions and pensions. It's great and all to give people lots of money to retire and do nothing, but I don't want to pay for it. Maybe we should allow people to voluntarily pay for public worker's pensions and see if they still get 60,000 a year.

[Ace Rothstein]

I understand firemen and police receiving pensions. We really aren't safer with people that should be retired in those roles. The rest of em? They should have 401k's like the rest of us.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

I understand firemen and police receiving pensions. We really aren't safer with people that should be retired in those roles. The rest of em? They should have 401k's like the rest of us.

Agreed

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

Ponzi scheme.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

I understand firemen and police receiving pensions. We really aren't safer with people that should be retired in those roles. The rest of em? They should have 401k's like the rest of us.

To add to this, the police and firemen also need to work for a decent amount of time before they qualify for full pensions. We don't need people working for 20 years and qualifying for a full pension.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

I understand firemen and police receiving pensions. We really aren't safer with people that should be retired in those roles. The rest of em? They should have 401k's like the rest of us.

That makes no sense at all.

How quickly we forget George Bush's near-catastrophic attempt to privatize social security by converting it into 401Ks. Which would have conveniently made loads of cash for Wall St traders right as Enron was about to tank mutual funds across the country.

How about demanding more from the private sector instead of lowering the bar for the public one?

Otherwise, you should say adios to your sick days, holidays, vacation days, maternity leave, workers comp, and every other worker improvement the private sector enjoys thanks to organized labor and collective bargaining.

You act like these things are a given, but they aren't.

How would you feel if you found out right before (or after) retirement that your employer hadn't been making a 401K match that was part of the agreement for you taking your job in the first place?

It isn't the fault of unions that Republican and Democratic politicians haven't been properly funding pension contributions for decades. The union members have been paying their share, it's we, the taxpayers, that are collectively in default. Point the finger at you, me, and every other Illinois voter who has allowed political corruption to endure for decades.

As for the "benefit to society" of paying what we owe - is that a joke?

Do you want to deal with thousands upon thousands of impoverished senior citizens in Illinois who suddenly wouldn't be able to pay their bills? Retired people do also shop and support the economy, you know. I guess you'd prefer they be kicked out of their homes so the banks can grow their slumlord-to-society role.

I can't believe how short-sighted people are these days... it's like the staunch refusal to look at an actual cost-benefit analysis of providing health care to everyone, even though our hospitals right now are already providing it by default, as by law they can't turn people away from the ER.

So to get back to Illinois - you can fix the pension "problem" by simply getting priorities straight. The State made an agreement. It should live up to that agreement before giving Sears monster tax breaks and all the other gravy we throw at so-called "private sector" companies.

It's completely legitimate to negotiate future pension agreements so we don't find ourselves in a similar pickle down the road, but this idea that we can retroactively welsh on existing ones is nonsense and unethical, if not illegal and likely a death sentence for our bond rating.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

Ponzi scheme.

Do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is?

I don't think so.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

To add to this, the police and firemen also need to work for a decent amount of time before they qualify for full pensions. We don't need people working for 20 years and qualifying for a full pension.

What does that actually mean? Your pension is presumably based on time of service. A guy who works 20 years isn't getting the same pension as one who worked 40.

Now, we don't need double-dippers for sure. There are loads of abuses that can be cut.

But don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is?

I don't think so.

Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.

Sounds damn similar to the pension issue if you ask me. More taxes for more retired government workers, new police and fire toys, eventually the whole thing comes crashing down. Which is where we are today.

The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments

Substitute earnings with taxes and payments with pension obligations.