Chicago-Des Moines-Omaha Train? (Rockford, Peoria, Quincy: rental, school, universities)

[marothisu]

Story from Iowa:

DOT seeks input on Chicago-DM-Omaha train plan | Local News - KCCI Home

I personally am all for this, for selfish reasons. I went to school in Iowa, and flying there is stupidly expensive (over $400 roundtrip for a 45 minute flight each way). Other options to get to Iowa without paying $400 for a roundtrip plane ticket are greyhound (no thanks) and renting a car (not bad). Train would be cool and fun..and it would definitely bring in some more tourists IMO. I know Southwest is starting service from Midway to DSM in September, but train is still a fun way to travel, and not too expensive for a short trip like that. I'm not sure if the cost of all of this would allow it to happen though.

Thoughts?

[gomexico]

I'm all for it.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I personally am all for this, for selfish reasons. I went to school in Iowa, and flying there is stupidly expensive (over $400 roundtrip for a 45 minute flight each way). Other options to get to Iowa without paying $400 for a roundtrip plane ticket are greyhound (no thanks) and renting a car (not bad). Train would be cool and fun..and it would definitely bring in some more tourists IMO. I know Southwest is starting service from Midway to DSM in September, but train is still a fun way to travel, and not too expensive for a short trip like that. I'm not sure if the cost of all of this would allow it to happen though.

Thoughts?

There is also Megabus which will get you ro Des Moines for about $1-$46 OW from Union Station. Megabus also continues to Omaha. The buses are better than Greyhound and there is generally no stops other than a four-hour rest stop.

By the way, Airtran has NON STOP flights out of MKE to DSM for $191RT and Delta has $192 RT on the same route with a stop in MSP.

Also, you can generally get a OW rental DSM-Chicagoland on Alamo for $82 with unlimited mileage. My wife commutes to DSM every few months and I will occasionally head OW with her and I will take a car back to Chicago.

Hope that helps.

[chet everett]

Cool & fun does not equal "enough demand to not require massive subsidies"...

When I think of all things that Uncle Sam is asking tax payers to shoulder the debt for generations the ridiculousness of long distance passenger rail is one of the worst offenders. The fact places like Asia or Europe have a whole different kind of economy/culture/set of incentives where rail transportation makes sense and those things are not now present nor are likely to ever materialize in most parts of the US. The NE corridor makes a lot of sense because there are enough people that cannot drive from Philly or DC to NYC. Some routes probably could eek by with minimal subsidies as the speed vs driving or flying is similar -- Chicago to St. Louis is an example of that type.

When you consider getting to Omaha via rail the upsides are minimal -- you are gonna be at a HUGE disadvantage w/o a car in Nebraska and it would take BILLIONS to make all those rural crossings safe enough for true high speed rail -- w/o those upgrades it will be FAR faster to FLY...

Potential for underwriting more freight alternatives for the stink in' agricultural lobby is another sneaky thing that makes me NOT want to shoulder the burden of this kind of rail project. Let Cargill and ADM pay for their own rail upgrades -- Warren Buffett can certainly afford to pay for anything that the BNSF needs!

[Chicago60614]

I'm from Iowa City and don't own a car, so of course I'd love this. I still have tons of friends and family in the IC and Des Moines areas, and Chicago is a very popular stop. Half of the kids at the U of Iowa are from the suburbs of Chicago, so I'm sure at least some of them would love to have the option of a train....since obviously Iowa City tries to explain to all 30,000+ kids that they shouldn't try to take a car to school with them while living on campus.

[SJaye]

How would the subsidies on this train compare to the subsidies given to driving and flying from Chicago to Des Moines/ Omaha?

[chet everett]

Having seen the rates that airlines charge for these routes it appears that there are no traditional direct subsidies. If one were to expand the definition to include the Federal tax dollars that are spent on silly TSA screenings and giveaways to the various airport authorities it is highly unlikely that these costs are a fraction of what would be needed to underwrite the massive improvements needed to get these routes up to true high speed standards. Expanding the idea of subsidies even further, to include the air traffic safety systems of the FAA it is hard to argue that the incremental need to handle planes enroute to more populous locales is not fully capable of also covering of intermediate destinations -- in other words, unless you want to defund coast-to- coast and international air traffic there is no real "subsidy" for inter region flight control -- the folks handling national air space have shiny state of the art facilities inside the Beltway compared to the bargain basement accomodations made for regional flights...

Originally Posted by SJaye

How would the subsidies on this train compare to the subsidies given to driving and flying from Chicago to Des Moines/ Omaha?

[css9450]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

I'm from Iowa City and don't own a car, so of course I'd love this. I still have tons of friends and family in the IC and Des Moines areas, and Chicago is a very popular stop. Half of the kids at the U of Iowa are from the suburbs of Chicago, so I'm sure at least some of them would love to have the option of a train....since obviously Iowa City tries to explain to all 30,000+ kids that they shouldn't try to take a car to school with them while living on campus.

That brings up one of the problems with trains that are mainly patronized by college kids. Sure its packed on the weekends (especially holiday weekends) but they're often nearly empty the rest of the time. The Amtrak trains that serve Galesburg and Macomb IL are particularly obvious examples of this.

[meatpuff]

I think it's best to compare it to the Amtrak lines that the state already funds inside of Illinois. From Chicago, to Carbondale, St Louis and Quincy.

In my mind this route is not as strong as St Louis because the St Louis area is so populous, but it's right there with the other two and maybe ahead. At least, Chicago to Des Moines is. Des Moines at 580,000 and Quad Cities at 380,000 are more populous than any Illinois metro areas except Chicago and St Louis (more than Rockford, Peoria, etc.). There are lots of colleges and universities along the route to drive traffic from students, but that includes the University of Iowa, which is not just any university. The major research activities and medical center there drives travel to/from Iowa City of a much greater scale and of more affluent travelers than just any old university, similar to University of Illinois.

Chet raises an excellent point about how it makes less sense to travel to say, Des Moines and try to get around there without a car. Well yes, and Chicago will have to be the anchor and major passenger magnet of the route, but that is the same as the other three lines. You still can/must get around downtown Chicago without a car. I share the concern about the subsidies, but it helps that major capital investment is only needed from Wyanet, IL westward since there is already passenger service from there east to Chicago. It would be tougher to support it if you had to rehab a dilapidated rail line all the way from Chicago to Des Moines.

I think the case for Chicago-Des Moines passenger rail is good, to the point that I think it is only for reasons of political boundaries that this line hasn't been built yet. If Des Moines and Iowa City were also part of Illinois, I think there would already be Chicago-Des Moines passenger rail today.

[jwaiter]

It should be a one-way train.