Murders in Chicago. (Time: low crime, school, gangs)

[Nafster]

Originally Posted by j_cat

got stats?

Chicago Crime: Shootings Slightly Up, Murders Way Up. What Gives? - The 312 - May 2012 - Chicago

There are your freakin' stats.

It comes as no coincidence that the "hero" Mayor that the media loves to hail him as treats public workers such as cops, *teachers*, and others like garbage, taking away the pay and pensions they put money aside for (some for decades being with the city) while increasing the pay of his "friends" and high up staff.

Now the cops who worked their butts off during NATO under Emanuel's orders are having difficulty getting their overtime pay? Hmmm.

Are some of you so blind that you don't connect the dots here? Emanuel threatening huge layoffs and police station closures, taking cops pay away. Where is the motivation, and manpower, to fight crime in Chicago anymore?

Yes, I'm holding the mayor, the "big boy" (or so he likes to think himself) responsible for the mess Chicago and the South Side is in right now.

Of course, people working for private corporations will staunchly rush to his defense. Go!

[chet everett]

A long time ago Chicago was a "law and order" kind of place where individuals feared the consequences of "stepping over lines". It started with families that cared enough to try and correct problems when their kid came home with a report of bad grades, poor attitude or anti-social behavior instead of not giving a darn. Back when folks that lived on one's block / in one's neighborhood wouldn't let the place be overrun with unsupervised kinds there was a kind of respect that people had for limits.
As people instead washed their hands of responsibility, fought over technicalities and imagined "civil rights abuses", relied on officious rules and bureaucracies and generally had greater detachment from "law and order" the inevitability of more serious crime continues to increase.

More cops would not be a bad way to ensure that the punishment and containment of criminals is better, but it won't "solve the gang problem". Criminal behavior, especially the wide spread attitudes of the illegal middle class drug user, need to be reset before there is progress is stemming the violence of gangs.

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

I'm pretty sure Emanuel isn't out there gunning down dozens of people. It's also nice to pin everything on the cops as well, but a vast majority of issues with murder go back to the person causing the murder. You have all these teenage/young 20's gangbangers who probably didn't even finish high school and certainly aren't sitting around worrying about respect or their community or anyone in it.

The police can certainly have an influence on crime, but murder is one of the hardest cases for police to have an affect, because they almost always get involved AFTER it happens. When a dude is wandering down an alley alone at 11pm on his way to shoot Carl when he steps onto his back porch - there isn't a ton the police can to do be proactive.

People act like the homicide rate is going up cause the cops aren't doing their jobs. How about we blame the people who are doing all the murdering? The community hides scared in the background as the gangs run wild, and then we all look to the police "how could you let this happen!?".

[Nafster]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

People act like the homicide rate is going up cause the cops aren't doing their jobs. How about we blame the people who are doing all the murdering? The community hides scared in the background as the gangs run wild, and then we all look to the police "how could you let this happen!?".

Do you really expect cops to be able to do their jobs when their salaries and pensions are being threatened? Where's their NATO overtime pay? Do you expect teachers to have motivation to teach and help keep these students in school when they're forced to work longer hours and have their pays and pensions cut?

Yes, it's a trickle down effect. You treat cops and public workers badly, they will do their jobs accordingly.

I definitely don't expect cops to continue their work under these conditions.

Many people who live on the North Side or who aren't public workers don't know the harm he's doing to this city.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

Apparently more than Chicago has now with gang violence being out of control every time the temp breaks 70.

So how many? We probably need to have a cop stationed on every corner of every gang infested area.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by chet everett

A long time ago Chicago was a "law and order" kind of place where individuals feared the consequences of "stepping over lines". It started with families that cared enough to try and correct problems when their kid came home with a report of bad grades, poor attitude or anti-social behavior instead of not giving a darn. Back when folks that lived on one's block / in one's neighborhood wouldn't let the place be overrun with unsupervised kinds there was a kind of respect that people had for limits.
As people instead washed their hands of responsibility, fought over technicalities and imagined "civil rights abuses", relied on officious rules and bureaucracies and generally had greater detachment from "law and order" the inevitability of more serious crime continues to increase.

More cops would not be a bad way to ensure that the punishment and containment of criminals is better, but it won't "solve the gang problem". Criminal behavior, especially the wide spread attitudes of the illegal middle class drug user, need to be reset before there is progress is stemming the violence of gangs.

Chet is correct. But something people need to remember is historical murders per year:

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510
2009: 458
2010: 449
2011: 440

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

So how many? We probably need to have a cop stationed on every corner of every gang infested area.

I'm not sure of an exact number but I know people in both Bridgeport and Hyde Park who have gone to CAPS meetings. Both have been told that the police are spread thin and that there isn't much they can do at this point to deter crime.

Rahm has moved cops from "cold" areas (Bridgeport, Hyde Park) to "hot" areas (Englewood). The formerly cold areas see an increase in crime because more resources have been shifted to these other areas. Consolidating police districts is looking to be an utter failure as well. For those that think Rahm has no fault here, not necessarily you Vlajos, you have to be kidding yourselves.

[Mathguy]

Wow. You guys really don't know how Chicago leadership rolls with regards to shootings?

80% of shootings are gang related. Basically the unspoken strategy is that it's cheaper to let the gangs police themselves and as long as it's banger killing banger in a bad neighborhood then it's cheaper than sending them to prison.

Now if a gang shoots up innocents or tourists or in a nice area then the police come down like a ton of bricks. In some cases the gang kills their own member for bringing heat upon them in such a way.

This was all set up long long ago by papa Daley who put most of the projects in isolated areas walled in by freeways and rail lines.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Wow. You guys really don't know how Chicago leadership rolls with regards to shootings?

80% of shootings are gang related. Basically the unspoken strategy is that it's cheaper to let the gangs police themselves and as long as it's banger killing banger in a bad neighborhood then it's cheaper than sending them to prison.

Now if a gang shoots up innocents or tourists or in a nice area then the police come down like a ton of bricks. In some cases the gang kills their own member for bringing heat upon them in such a way.

This was all set up long long ago by papa Daley who put most of the projects in isolated areas walled in by freeways and rail lines.

I think you're right, my question is how many police would it take to stop the gangs?

[Plzeň]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I think you're right, my question is how many police would it take to stop the gangs?

You're not going to stop gangs unless you can stop poverty and/or the demand for illegal services. All you can do is push them from one area to another.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Wow. You guys really don't know how Chicago leadership rolls with regards to shootings?

80% of shootings are gang related. Basically the unspoken strategy is that it's cheaper to let the gangs police themselves and as long as it's banger killing banger in a bad neighborhood then it's cheaper than sending them to prison.

Now if a gang shoots up innocents or tourists or in a nice area then the police come down like a ton of bricks. In some cases the gang kills their own member for bringing heat upon them in such a way.

This was all set up long long ago by papa Daley who put most of the projects in isolated areas walled in by freeways and rail lines.

The biggest problem is that the projects are gone and it has spilled over into a variety of different neighborhoods now. Seems like more and more innocent people are getting shot who aren't involved with the gangs as a result.