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Old 06-14-2012, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Middlesex
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at least Chicago didn't make this list..

10 places
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,923,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman View Post
at least Chicago didn't make this list..

10 places
Because outside of a handful of neighborhoods (mostly on the south side, with some on the West side), Chicago is not that unsafe.


A bigger reason Chicago is not on the list is because this list is probably compiled from the FBI UCR, and Chicago doesn't actually report to that (pretty much the only big city).
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 7,211,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
A bigger reason Chicago is not on the list is because this list is probably compiled from the FBI UCR, and Chicago doesn't actually report to that (pretty much the only big city).
It isn't Chicago that doesn't report to FBI UCR, it's the State of Illinois, and they DO report. The FBI has a different definition of rape than Illinois. From the FBI -

Quote:
"The data collection methodology for the offense of forcible rape used by the Illinois and the Minnesota state UCR Programs does not comply with national UCR guidelines."
Both Illinois and Minnesota have broader definitions of rape and define them more specifically. The FBI basically believes it is impossible for a man to rape another man, and that foreign objects cannot be used to rape a person. The UCR also only allows one crime to be reported based on a hierarchy system, so if a person is raped and then murdered it is only counted as a homicide. This actually makes the UCR kind of useless. The FBI reports llinois numbers in the majority of their reports with a notation added and I'm pretty sure Chicago numbers were included in compiling the list.

Chicago may not have been in the FBI list used because of reporting differences, but even if they were part of the calculations for this list they wouldn't have made the list. All the numbers in the list are higher than Chicago's.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,923,075 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
It isn't Chicago that doesn't report to FBI UCR, it's the State of Illinois, and they DO report. The FBI has a different definition of rape than Illinois. From the FBI -
Yes, but these sources go to the FBI UCR directly, which doesn't have Chicago MSA or city data. I know it goes to the Police Service as I've done research directly with the data before, but the sources don't dig THAT deep. They just see what the source from the FBI reports (none for Chicago).


Quote:
Both Illinois and Minnesota have broader definitions of rape and define them more specifically (the FBI basically believes it is impossible for a man to rape another man, and that foreign objects cannot be used to rape a person). The FBI reports llinois numbers in the majority of their reports with a notation added and I'm pretty sure Chicago numbers were included in compiling the list.

Chicago may not have been in the FBI list used because of reporting differences, but even if they were part of the calculations for this list they wouldn't have made the list. All the numbers in the list are higher than Chicago's.
Yeah that's a good point and most likely the reason, but yes anyway, people think Chicago is not safe all over or something which is hilarious.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:51 PM
 
28,453 posts, read 85,379,084 times
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Default Well isn't that convenient...

It is not quite re-assuringto me that Illinois chooses not to define "forcible rape" in the same way as the FBI and that leads to our little "divide by zero" issue and keeps Chicago off the list.
If one looks at the whole list of Crimes Rates for US Cities it is pretty clear murder is far more common here than in cities of similar population size (like Houston) with our frightening 15.2/100k way ahead of their 11.8/100K though they have as whipped in aggravated assault, 485.5/100K to 528.8/100k... I guess you need even more "street smarts" in decidedly smaller cities like New Orleand, St. Louis, Baltimore,Detroit, DC, and Philly with their rates of 49.1, 40.5, 34.8, 34.5,21.9 and 19.6 . Given the liklihood that should our defination be consistent with the FBI number it is likely that no other city of similar populatuion would drop us out the upper ranks...
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 7,211,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
It is not quite re-assuringto me that Illinois chooses not to define "forcible rape" in the same way as the FBI and that leads to our little "divide by zero" issue and keeps Chicago off the list.
The State of Illinois defines rape in much broader terms than the FBI, if a rape victim is drugged when raped it is not counted as a rape in most of the country. If the victim is male it is not counted as a rape in most of the country. If a foreign object is used it is not counted as a rape in most of the country. If a husband rapes his wife it is not counted as a rape in most of the country. Statutory rape is not counted as rape in most of the country. In Illinois stats those all count as rapes.

Illinois also doesn't use the hierarchical reporting used by the UCR (and most of the rest of the country). Illinois OVER REPORTS crimes by the FBI UCR standards. As I posted before, if someone breaks into a house, robs them, then rapes and murders them it is simply listed as a homicide under a hierarchical system. In Illinois it is counted as a burglary, a rape and a murder. As it should be. I don't get why that is "not quite re-assuring" to you.

I also think your comparison to Houston ignores the fact that Houston has an area more than twice the size of Chicago, and includes many areas are more suburban in nature. If Chicago stats had close in burbs rolled into the stats you would see a drop in crime rates to far lower than Houston's levels.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Jefferson Park Chicago, IL
537 posts, read 1,034,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
The State of Illinois defines rape in much broader terms, if a rape victim is drugged when raped it is not counted as a rape in most of the country. If the victim is male it is not counted as a rape in most of the country.

Illinois also doesn't use the hierarchical reporting used by the UCR (and most of the rest of the country). Illinois OVER REPORTS crimes by the FBI UCR standards. As I posted before, if someone breaks into a house, robs them, then rapes and murders them it is simply listed as a homicide under a hierarchical system. In Illinois it is counted as a burglary, a rape and a murder. As it should be. I don't get why that is "not quite re-assuring" to you.
I'm not sure why people don't get this.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:30 PM
 
12 posts, read 14,527 times
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Rahm just had a big news conference with his police chief about the recent killings and muggings and flash mobs attacking people in SAFE areas....they take the red line into these areas....two drs got mugged outside of NW hospital in one incident...the beat cops are mad as heck....June is fast approaching a record number murders in Chicago....and no, you will not read this in the mainline newspapers or see it on the mainline tv channels...its bad for tourism...so keep it all quiet, under you hat.....SHHHHHH........
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,662 posts, read 4,977,549 times
Reputation: 6022
Quote:
Originally Posted by frannylee View Post
Rahm just had a big news conference with his police chief about the recent killings and muggings and flash mobs attacking people in SAFE areas....they take the red line into these areas....two drs got mugged outside of NW hospital in one incident...the beat cops are mad as heck....June is fast approaching a record number murders in Chicago....and no, you will not read this in the mainline newspapers or see it on the mainline tv channels...its bad for tourism...so keep it all quiet, under you hat.....SHHHHHH........
No, you will not, because evidently you don't read the newspaper. I have read many articles about increased crime in the newspaper this year.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Jefferson Park Chicago, IL
537 posts, read 1,034,844 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by frannylee View Post
Rahm just had a big news conference with his police chief about the recent killings and muggings and flash mobs attacking people in SAFE areas....they take the red line into these areas....two drs got mugged outside of NW hospital in one incident...the beat cops are mad as heck....June is fast approaching a record number murders in Chicago....and no, you will not read this in the mainline newspapers or see it on the mainline tv channels...its bad for tourism...so keep it all quiet, under you hat.....SHHHHHH........
It's been all over every major news outlet in the city and FWIW the doctor muggings were two separate incidents.
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