What's up with people in Chicago (Lyndon: apartment, rent, student loans)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by oddstray

But ... I grew up in Chicago. I have since lived in Northern California, Southern California, and France. I spent a summer living outside Baltimore. While I was growing up I came to realize that Chicago is the most racist place I was aware of, despite (or maybe because) that most people had the "courtesy" to keep their mouths shut about it. And I have not since had any reason to change my mind. In this respect I think the OP might be spot on that it's subtle racism.

I have lived in Minnesota, Iowa, and Illinois in the midwest and can tell you this is very common amongst the midwest except a few cities. I would say that Chicago is the least "indirectly racist" I've actually lived in out of those three states. I perceive some people in the midwest as closet bigots because there are a good number who ARE bigoted but are too afraid to outwardly say it and/or act upon it which is fine if they want to think that way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if they're illogical. If they aren't making actions on it, then whatever, but once they do is when I get PO'd about it personally.

[emathias]

I would wonder what the O.P. dressed like.

Some preppy guy with well-groomed hair, wearing tasseled loafers, khakis and an oxford blue shirt with a navy blazer doesn't usually attract a second glance in the wealthy north side neighborhoods regardless of race.

Right or wrong, though, a man (especially black, but really of any race) wearing tricked-out sneakers, baggy jeans, a puffy jacket and a do-rag may (will) experience glances, increased security observation and nervous reactions from many women or smaller-built men.

And of course there's a range of clothing styles in between those - the more preppy the dress, the less likely to come under scrutiny, the more ghetto the dress the more likely to come under scrutiny.

Is that racism? Sort of, although it's not the sort of insidious, anti-person racism most people think of when you say "racism." It's more of a xenophobia, or a social pressure to conform to cultural norms of the area. Certainly it's a form of discrimination to look down on another cultures chosen style of dress. However, a person can usually change how they dress if they choose to, in order to better fit into another culture. They can't change their skin color.

That said, there are definitely some outright, real racists in those areas, too. I've stood and heard a guy who owns a SFH in Lincoln Park talk about his (probably illegal) gun collection that he keeps in his attic for when "they start a revolution," where "they" was clearly a racial reference. Fortunately he's the exception, not the rule.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by emathias

I would wonder what the O.P. dressed like.

Some preppy guy with well-groomed hair, wearing tasseled loafers, khakis and an oxford blue shirt with a navy blazer doesn't usually attract a second glance in the wealthy north side neighborhoods regardless of race.

Right or wrong, though, a man (especially black, but really of any race) wearing tricked-out sneakers, baggy jeans, a puffy jacket and a do-rag may (will) experience glances, increased security observation and nervous reactions from many women or smaller-built men.

And of course there's a range of clothing styles in between those - the more preppy the dress, the less likely to come under scrutiny, the more ghetto the dress the more likely to come under scrutiny.

Is that racism? Sort of, although it's not the sort of insidious, anti-person racism most people think of when you say "racism." It's more of a xenophobia, or a social pressure to conform to cultural norms of the area. Certainly it's a form of discrimination to look down on another cultures chosen style of dress. However, a person can usually change how they dress if they choose to, in order to better fit into another culture. They can't change their skin color.

That said, there are definitely some outright, real racists in those areas, too. I've stood and heard a guy who owns a SFH in Lincoln Park talk about his (probably illegal) gun collection that he keeps in his attic for when "they start a revolution," where "they" was clearly a racial reference. Fortunately he's the exception, not the rule.

Yep, and whether people think it or not, MOST people at least subconsciously make a decision about someone based on how they dress. This is one thing I got a wake-up call about when I went to the British Virgin Islands for the first time. Landed at night, and went to Road Town (the main town) to get a drink with my friends. At the bar were these guys who *looked* like what a lot of gangsters I've encountered in the US look like. They turned out to be extremely nice guys who weren't gangsters at all. Was it a little weird of me to judge someone like that? Absolutely. It was an important lesson for me though and luckily I changed my opinion right after that of the people who dressed like that in the country.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by DipGrant

I am an African American male and I think I know subtle/covert racism when I see. I currently live in a city that is predominantly white and I rarely get cues of racism. Whats going on in this city where whenever a black man crosses peoples path they seem so edgy. Things like asking for ID twice after already being checked in twice, from getting strange looks from people during a date with a woman who was white, too drug store managers following me around. Check this out, during a recent trip to the gym I went to my rental car to put some things in the back. One white women was just about to leave, then just stopped and was staring at me for a couple minutes. She went back to the gym and had one of the staff members escort her to her car which was parked near my car.

This all happened in the popular trendy north side neighborhoods. Is there a APB put out on individual black men, because I think residents who reside there need to get a wake up call. Not every young black male is going to mug you and are part of a flash mob.

When it comes to black men, Chicago is easily the most racist major city in the country. NOne of what you say surprises me in the least. I've had white women clutch their purse as I walk past them on the street. If you spend any time in trendy north side neighborhoods you will see quite a bit of this sort of thing. It is what it is.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

When it comes to black men, Chicago is easily the most racist major city in the country. NOne of what you say surprises me in the least. I've had white women clutch their purse as I walk past them on the street. If you spend any time in trendy north side neighborhoods you will see quite a bit of this sort of thing. It is what it is.

Black males commit more crimes in Chicago than white males do. If it were the opposite, women would clutch their purses when walking past white men on the street.

[Chi-town Native]

What is most sad about this conversation is that the most racist actions are by definition the ones involving laws and regulations which impact poorer, and thus disproportionately, African American people.

The bankers and the regulators and the politicians and the like (not all of course, but they make the rules) are who fuel racism.

Social justice and a more peaceful, laid-back world requires economic justice, which ain't even close to happening right now. Too address the above, if white women had more sense, they'd stop voting for the politicians who are essentially snatching their purses by tanking the economy and undermining social security, pension funds, etc. while giving wealthy people and corporations tax loopholes and breaks out the wazoo.

[ParkerP]

I don't doubt the OP at all but what's with the emphasis on "trendy"? Neighborhoods labelled as "trendy" and "popular" does not = all-inclusive utopia where everybody gets along and is treated fairly. I had friends that went running off to the northside to be among the trendy and popular and they got their feelings hurt real quick once they learned that trendy and popular does not make discrimination disappear. Unfortunately, when it happens, all you can do is deal with it and keep living.

[Chi-town Native]

"Let me tell you about the new fashion, honey - all you need are looks and a whole lot of money."

- Billy Joel

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

What is most sad about this conversation is that the most racist actions are by definition the ones involving laws and regulations which impact poorer, and thus disproportionately, African American people.

So laws and regulations are to blame for the complete breakdown of the family in many African American neighborhoods which has led many young black men to gangs and a life of crime?

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

So laws and regulations are to blame for the complete breakdown of the family in many African American neighborhoods which has led many young black men to gangs and a life of crime?

Of course.

Easy proof - did these populations have these problems when they were minding their own business in their homeland?