Alderman of 1st Ward Proco "Joe" Moreno thinks Daily Show viewers are his path to glory... (Chicago: fit in, inspections)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by J. Lundegaard

And that is what the Chicago Tribune is reporting and what came out of Moreno's own mouth. From today's Trib:

"The controversy over Chick-fil-A began earlier this week when the Tribune reported that Ald. Proco "Joe" Moreno, 1st, planned to use his aldermanic privilege to block the construction of a second Chick-fil-A in Logan Square because of comments made last week by company President Dan Cathy."

That's not a quote by Moreno, that's a sub-standard news organization's take.

From Moreno in his newsletter:

In every meeting I had with Chick-fil-A people over the last 9 months they told me they didn't support anti-gay causes. Last week, the comments from the CEO of the company made it clear that they were lying to my face in every one of those meetings. Also, there were issues with increased traffic congestion, which were never resolved.

So his stance is not as simple as "they don't like gay marriage," it's that in the course of negotiations they deliberately misled him regarding financially supporting anti-gay organizations/people.

Mark my words, that's all he needs to deny the zoning. The traffic congestion is just icing on the cake.

[J. Lundegaard]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

That's not a quote by Moreno, that's a sub-standard news organization's take.

From Moreno in his newsletter:

In every meeting I had with Chick-fil-A people over the last 9 months they told me they didn't support anti-gay causes. Last week, the comments from the CEO of the company made it clear that they were lying to my face in every one of those meetings. Also, there were issues with increased traffic congestion, which were never resolved.

So his stance is not as simple as "they don't like gay marriage," it's that in the course of negotiations they deliberately misled him regarding financially supporting anti-gay organizations/people.

But then there's this. His own words:

Initially, I had some traffic concerns with their plan. But then I heard the bigoted, homophobic comments by Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy, who recently came out against same-sex marriage. There are consequences for one's actions, statements and beliefs. Because of this man's ignorance, I will deny Chick-fil-A a permit to open a restaurant in my ward.

Point blank, he states that because of the owner's ignorance (i.e., his views on gay marriage), the consequence is that Moreno will deny the permit. This is pretty openly discriminating again Chik-Fil-A based on the owner's views on gay marriage.

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Mark my words, that's all he needs to deny the zoning. The traffic congestion is just icing on the cake.

Well on this point I am absolutely not going to disagree with you. Chicago is a town that has shady politics and I'm sure politicians and aldermen get away with stuff all the time that otherwise isn't exactly legal or constitutional. But just because he'll likely get away with it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I'm guess I'm just somewhat surprised at how many here are defending Moreno's actions or are otherwise ambivalent just because they like the result (no Chik-Fil-A in Logan Square). I mean I get it, this guy is pretty bigoted towards gays and maybe that location is the worst possible place for a standalone fast food restaurant. It's just that he is using his position in government to try to punish someone for their constitutionally protected speech. The idea behind the First Amendment and having free speech in general is that the government does not punish speech it doesn't agree with it. That rule is there to protect us all, including those who have otherwise offensive views. Remember the old quote from Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by J. Lundegaard

But then there's this. His own words:

Initially, I had some traffic concerns with their plan. But then I heard the bigoted, homophobic comments by Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy, who recently came out against same-sex marriage. There are consequences for one's actions, statements and beliefs. Because of this man's ignorance, I will deny Chick-fil-A a permit to open a restaurant in my ward.

Point blank, he states that because of the owner's ignorance (i.e., his views on gay marriage), the consequence is that Moreno will deny the permit. This is pretty openly discriminating again Chik-Fil-A based on the owner's views on gay marriage.




Well on this point I am absolutely not going to disagree with you. Chicago is a town that has shady politics and I'm sure politicians and aldermen get away with stuff all the time that otherwise isn't exactly legal or constitutional. But just because he'll likely get away with it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I'm guess I'm just somewhat surprised at how many here are defending Moreno's actions or are otherwise ambivalent just because they like the result (no Chik-Fil-A in Logan Square). I mean I get it, this guy is pretty bigoted towards gays and maybe that location is the worst possible place for a standalone fast food restaurant. It's just that he is using his position in government to try to punish someone for their constitutionally protected speech. The idea behind the First Amendment and having free speech in general is that the government does not punish speech it doesn't agree with it. That rule is there to protect us all, including those who have otherwise offensive views. Remember the old quote from Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Reminds me of all the assy republicans who want to stop women from having the option of legal abortion.

[J. Lundegaard]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Reminds me of all the assy republicans who want to stop women from having legal abortions.

Yes, there are horrible hypocrites on both sides of the aisle. Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of selectively liking the Constitution when it suits their needs, but ignoring it when it serves as an obstacle to something they want to do. (E.g., Joe Moreno and his feud with Chik-Fil-A.)

I'm also surprised that Rahm was so quick to defend Moreno's comments, letting us all know that Chik-Fil-A's values don't comport with Chicago's values. Yet, where are his similar comments on the Nation of Islam? Farrakan's views on gays (not to mention Jews) are much worse than anything the Chik-Fil-A owner has said. Makes me think this is all just typical politics.

(I'm pro-choice by the way.)

[dewthedru]

interesting quote

If you support what Emanuel is doing here, then you should be equally supportive of a Mayor in Texas or a Governor in Idaho who blocks businesses from opening if they are run by those who support same-sex marriage — or who oppose American wars, or who support reproductive rights, or who favor single-payer health care, or which donates to LGBT groups and Planned Parenthood, on the ground that such views are offensive to Christian or conservative residents. You can’t cheer when political officials punish the expression of views you dislike and then expect to be taken seriously when you wrap yourself in the banner of free speech in order to protest state punishment of views you like and share. Free speech rights means that government officials are barred from creating lists of approved and disapproved political ideas and then using the power of the state to enforce those preferences. -- Glenn Greenwald, Salon

Source: Conservatives and Liberals Defend Chick-fil-A | NBC Chicago

[tribecavsbrowns]

Hope the city gets the beejeezus sued out of them on this one, don't care what it costs me, either.

[DanielWaterhouse]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I suspect that Proco is looking for a way to a get a different resturant interested in the site. Maybe he wants a nice drive-thru Starbucks or a Panera to locate in the parking lot of the Home Depot and this looks like a good way for him to put the kibosh on the objections of loud mouth activists that don't want nothing there...

Poison the succes of the fundamentalist chicken sandwich folks, steamroll the objections of neighbors, line up a gay friendly restuarant chain you look like a genuis . Rahm should worry about Procco...

ERS-One beat me to it.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Reminds me of all the assy republicans who want to stop women from having the option of legal abortion.

Come on, there are certainly plenty of folks that play to their base with condemnations of Roe v Wade and all sorts of show boaty speachify, but I can't think of too many politicians that actually do anything to actively limit such a thing.

Proco is saying he is going stop Chik-Fil-A from getting a permit to open a legitimate business becuase of what its owner states as his personal belief. That is a pretty bold line to cross to use ones role as government offical to punish a business owner...

[chet everett]

...DRIVE THRU WINDOWS!!!

Elston is a now a rather hideous slice of autocentric development but you can't "put the genie back in the bottle". I predict that within a year there will be some other crappy drive thru window equipped place on the site and Proco will have a nice fat campaign donation from that business...

Originally Posted by DanielWaterhouse

Funny you should mention those examples since there are already 2 Starbucks and 1 Panera within 1000ft of that location.

[Attrill]

The existing situation is that they CANNOT build a store there. It would be different if the Alderman were changing the zoning to block them, but they are asking for special considerations and due to a variety of factors (including their dishonesty in meetings and traffic concerns) he opts to take no action on their behalf. Legally they don't have a leg to stand on and there's no way they could win a lawsuit.

This is in no way a situation that is unique to Chicago, every community in the country has zoning fights all the time for both practical and political reasons. Aurora went through a fight over a Planned Parenthood clinic, Twisted Kilt has had a difficult time opening restaurants around the state with politicians and competing businesses using zoning and liquor licenses to deny them permits, Hooters always has problems opening new restaurants. There is nothing unusual about controversial businesses running into difficulties getting permits and zoning approval.