Murder in Chicago is murder in America (city hall, insurance)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by rparz

Ahh, if only if it was that simple.

I'm quite certain the whole southern half of the country could fall off tomorrow and the large cities will still have their problems with poverty, education, jobs, and a whole host of other things.
There's many different things that need fixing, and to try to say it's a conspiracy from the south -- Well, I find that simplistic and amusing.

Your statement has some truth in it, but only as the damage has been done. The South never actually made any reparations or gave freed slaves any land, nor did they make serious attempts to integrate the freed slaves - in fact, they did the opposite!

Read about Reconstruction, it is enlightening, I assure you.

But all this is a bit irrelevant to my simple point, which is guns stream into Chicago from the south.

I don't view this as Chicago or Illinois' fault (linicx - we can't just profile people and pull them over because they look guilty if they aren't breaking traffic laws).

This is a "point of sale" problem.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Your statement has some truth in it, but only as the damage has been done. The South never actually made any reparations or gave freed slaves any land, nor did they make serious attempts to integrate the freed slaves - in fact, they did the opposite!

Read about Reconstruction, it is enlightening, I assure you.

But all this is a bit irrelevant to my simple point, which is guns stream into Chicago from the south.

I don't view this as Chicago or Illinois' fault (linicx - we can't just profile people and pull them over because they look guilty if they aren't breaking traffic laws).

This is a "point of sale" problem.

You can make every sale illegal and it won't change a thing.

They will just import the guns just like the bring in the cocaine, marijuana etc.

You will also see a spark in home invasion gun thefts as it will raise the price a bit and thus be a lucrative theft item. (kinda like if you live in a dicey neighborhood and get a new xbox or flatscreen....you don't leave the boxes out at the curb for the trashman. )

[rparz]

Wait, you mean that with all technology the government has to protect us, the bad guys are still able to smuggle things in they shouldn't have?

If they make guns illegal, who will be the only ones that have them?

[Chi-town Native]

Gentlemen, my point is that until proven otherwise, I contend that the states where the guns are being sold from could care less about whether the sales are illegal, as the carnage they ultimately wreak happens up here, not down there.

To get back to what Attrill was saying, easy way to check this is to have a system which allows you to trace every gun to its source.

No one is disputing that guns will still find their ways into the hands of criminal, the question is can we make that process harder, more expensive, and can we ultimately hold the gun shops responsible which are not following the law.

Or in Chicago parlance, I'll put it this way:

You lock your windows not due to a belief that an able-bodied criminal cannot break the glass.

That would be stupid.

No, you lock your windows so if someone wants to get in your house they have to break in, and so they will BLEED in the process.

[Chi-town Native]

I-Team Report: Chicago guns coming from Mississippi | abc7chicago.com

...Clarksdale has been cultivated by Chicago street gang leaders for so-called straw purchases of guns the past decade they have been used in crimes here and in seizures over the years police have traced hundreds back to Mississippi.

[Chi-town Native]

Gun recovered in officer slaying traced back to Mississippi - Chicago Tribune


..."About the same time, Gates, according to the charges against him, had found a profitable combination in Mississippi: plenty of gun shops, relaxed purchasing laws and college students in need of cash.To buy a gun in Mississippi, you must be 21 and have a valid state identification and a clean criminal record."

[Chi-town Native]

Alabama Dealers' Guns Linked To 901 Crimes - Chicago Tribune

"A brother and sister, onetime partners in a Birmingham gun shop, were taken into custody last week on charges that they illegally sold more than 2,000 guns, 901 of them used in violent crimes across the country, including 322 in the New York metropolitan area.They are the final two co-conspirators and the major players in a gun-running operation that spread firearms illegally into New York and almost a dozen other states, including Illinois, say federal agents."

[rparz]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Gentlemen, my point is that until proven otherwise, I contend that the states where the guns are being sold from could care less about whether the sales are illegal, as the carnage they ultimately wreak happens up here, not down there.

To get back to what Attrill was saying, easy way to check this is to have a system which allows you to trace every gun to its source.

No one is disputing that guns will still find their ways into the hands of criminal, the question is can we make that process harder, more expensive, and can we ultimately hold the gun shops responsible which are not following the law.

Or in Chicago parlance, I'll put it this way:

You lock your windows not due to a belief that an able-bodied criminal cannot break the glass.

That would be stupid.

No, you lock your windows so if someone wants to get in your house they have to break in, and so they will BLEED in the process.

Right, and the whole rationale to limit gun sales is to reduce criminal and voile t elements from acquiring them, which is futile at best.
Coming to grips with reality, I'd like a weapon to protect myself as it can take CPD ten minutes to respond to anything. The laws will have more of an impact on me than criminals.

[rparz]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Alabama Dealers' Guns Linked To 901 Crimes - Chicago Tribune

"A brother and sister, onetime partners in a Birmingham gun shop, were taken into custody last week on charges that they illegally sold more than 2,000 guns, 901 of them used in violent crimes across the country, including 322 in the New York metropolitan area.They are the final two co-conspirators and the major players in a gun-running operation that spread firearms illegally into New York and almost a dozen other states, including Illinois, say federal agents."

Ask someone who got shot if they care if the weapon came from Mississpi, Mexico, Ukraine, or somewhere else.
Point is, they'll get the guns from somewhere else. Probably make more money off the markup from what is now a black market item.

We can agree we needs the guns out of criminals hands, we disagree how it should be done.
I just want to make sure if I'm a victim, I can shoot back.

[DoubleMakers]

Originally Posted by rparz

We can agree we needs the guns out of criminals hands, we disagree how it should be done.
I just want to make sure if I'm a victim, I can shoot back.

This - a thousand times this.