De Facto Segregation in Chicago (Lincoln, Berkeley: day care, house, employment)

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

I'd like to think this too, however, IMO there are too many circumstantial facts that indicate otherwise. If we look at community areas where the non-Hispanic white segment of the population has returned en masse via gentrification since 1970-80, those areas were previously Hispanic...not African American. A big part of the near NW side for example, specific areas in Lincoln Park and Lakeview. The only exceptions to that statement are where whites have returned to the area but settled in either "gated" developments or in high rises. I'm talking about community areas like the near S and W sides. Despite a racial balance between white and black existing in the Near W and S CAs, there is no integration in any meaningful way. You have upper middle class whites living in high rises with door men or in developments behind gates.

You just don't see whites moving to areas with a high African American presence and living side by side in 2 and 3 flats the way gentrification took root in places like Wicker Park, Ukranian Village, Bucktown, Logan Square....or the way it is continuing in areas like Humboldt Park, Pilsen, Bridgeport, etc.

The integration pattern in Chicago between white and black has always had some sort of intermediary step w/ Hispanic and/or Asian. Douglas is a good example. In 2000, 86% black, 1% Hispanic, 7% white, 1% Other, 5% Asian. In 2010, 73% black, 3% Hispanic, 10% white, 1% other, 13% Asian. The leading indicator is the jump in Hispanic/Asian pop from 6% to 16%, not the white increase from 6% to 10%. The gentrification attitude historically has been for the immigrant communities to do the heavy integration work while middle class whites follow the immigrant class into an area.

The closest thing to true white black integration among the more dense and urban CAs I can think of is Uptown and Rogers Park, but even in these areas racial patterns tend to be street to street. I'd be curious to know how many people live in census blocks in the city that are 20-60% white and 20-60% black. Not too many, I'd guess.

The bottom line is that whites and blacks simply don't want to live around each other, especially in super-segregated, Midwestern cities like Chicago. That's the end of the story.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

The bottom line is that whites and blacks simply don't want to live around each other, especially in super-segregated, Midwestern cities like Chicago. That's the end of the story.

I respectfully disagree, the gentleman that I am speaking to wants to continue to live in Lakeview - otherwise he would be talking about wanting to live somewhere else.

I want to live with nice neighbors no matter what their color - I do not wish to live near criminals, thuggery, drug culture, or crazy teens that cause trouble, no matter what race, creed or color they are including whiteys.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

I respectfully disagree, the gentleman that I am speaking to wants to continue to live in Lakeview - otherwise he would be talking about wanting to live somewhere else.

I want to live with nice neighbors no matter what their color - I do not wish to live near criminals, thuggery, drug culture, or crazy teens that cause trouble, no matter what race, creed or color they are including whiteys.

What does this have to do with my post? Are you saying that blacks have to live around whites to avoid crime, thuggery and drugs as you put it?

[Lorielicious]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

I respectfully disagree, the gentleman that I am speaking to wants to continue to live in Lakeview - otherwise he would be talking about wanting to live somewhere else.

I want to live with nice neighbors no matter what their color - I do not wish to live near criminals, thuggery, drug culture, or crazy teens that cause trouble, no matter what race, creed or color they are including whiteys.

Every time someone forces a way to tack onto their statement "I don't care what race you are!" they care what race you are.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Lorielicious

Every time someone forces a way to tack onto their statement "I don't care what race you are!" they care what race you are.

Yep. The only thing better is, "I'm not a racist, but..." When you hear that, you know you're about to hear something really racist.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

What does this have to do with my post? Are you saying that blacks have to live around whites to avoid crime, thuggery and drugs as you put it?

You said upthread that blacks and whites dont want to live with each other.. and i disagreed with you, as the other black guy said he wanted to live in the predominantly white lincoln park/lakeview and also you may have been implying that i as a white person do not want to live with a blakc person and i was clarifying the kind of poeple i do not wnat to live by - thuggery for one - they come in all colors. I wrote out some essays earlier explaining this in detail.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Lorielicious

Every time someone forces a way to tack onto their statement "I don't care what race you are!" they care what race you are.

You forgot the other phrase people tack on "I have a black friend .. "

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

What an unfulfilled life one would lead if they essentially decided a third of its inhabitants were mistakes on the planet. Sad... I am fairly happy to say that most of the kids I grew up with in LV and LP (and Logan Sq for that matter) were of every background imaginable and coexisting in school, day camps, after school activities, etc.

In my (as Drover nailed) tiny uber-left wing lutheran grade school we had a black girl from Lathrop Homes, another from Sedgwick Gardens, another from Cabrini, we had some kids who were Vietnam refugees, we had the usual assortment of germans, irish, mexicans, puerto ricans, poles, asians, appalachians and it was more the norm than the exception in LP and Lv high schools as well (I'm 40). We had the parents who thought Sesame Street was a viable neighborhood model, and I am certainly grateful for that.

I train at that Belmont dojo at Clark btw, and I have been in classes where I was the only American- now that is a trip. Fantastic place, I trained there in the late 80s and returned recently. I wish you had indeed gone a little deeper in LV, I think you have an opinion which is clearly founded on experience, but that experience reflects a very specific subset of the area. If you don't really understand the schools, teens, young adults, working professionals and seniors, you aren't IMO seeing the whole picture. I do enjoy learning from you and everyone here, btw.

We are the same age and I am glad that your experience has been different than mine. Actually living in the area , walking the streets during the daytime reflects a totally different scene than what you are describing. I don't remember the last time I saw a Black or Hispanic family walking the streets in the neighborhood.

Boystown has a different street scene due to it being a gay magnet for the region. There are a few clubs who strive to improve the racial climate of the community such as Roscoes and Spins. But most are not concerned about it. The gay community in major cities are struggling with the issue of inclusion from with in their community. If you don't believe me google will identify not only issues in boystown but also the Castro, Chelsea and other gayborhoods.

Southport, Ashland, Clark, Belmont and Lincoln doesn't give the vibe your reflecting on from your school years. Now areas of Uptown, Rogers Park, and Hyde Park gives a vibe that is similar to what you are describing. I would love to say that I am wrong.

IMO, LV residents and many visitors are not accustomed to socializing with Blacks who are normal. They see the thugs on the streets and the trains and think thats Black culture. Of course they like Martin Luther King Jr. and President Obama but they choose not to interact with Blacks. walk up and down any of the streets that I mention above on a Friday and Saturday evening. See how socially advanced the patrons are.

Experiencing the segregation of many not all neighborhood shows there is something wrong with the culture of segregation and I don't think it can change over night.

[linicx]

The only time America ever "tried" integration was when Dr. King was alive. He's gone and so are his dreams for an integrated America. Integration and learning to 'love thy neighbor' has come a long way since the Civil War, but it has a longer way to go.

Maybe in another 300 years integration we'll see signs of progress but I doubt it as long as hatred is being preached and celebrated. And as long as nice people live in tiny cramped quarters with no hope of escape. It makes no difference if the 'jail' is a concrete room with bars on the windows and door, or it is a 300 sq.ft. apartment surround by city noise inside and out 24/7/365. It is still a jail that breeds fear, frustration and hatred.

[ChiNaan]

Black/White segregation is significantly less in the Western U.S. than it is in the Midwest, South, and East Coast, and the Great Lakes area is the worst of the worst. People have shifted the focus of this thread to it being a U.S. problem, which it is, but let's not pretend it isn't worse in Chicago than most places.