De Facto Segregation in Chicago (section 8, how much, schools)

[ERS-One]

Originally Posted by irvparkrez11

What is wrong with you people?

You type lots of stupid sh*t.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by irvparkrez11

The Poles are getting run out of the neighborhood too. What'll become of Avondale ?

The Poles aren't getting run out, many of them are simply migrating to what they see as greener pastures. Avondale was 70% Hispanic in 2000, so it's not like it's been majority Polish (if it ever was) for a long, long time.

Look at the vacancies along Milwaukee Ave between Diversey and Pulaski, there's nobody bum-rushing Avondale's main commercial thoroughfare, although that will likely come in the next larger economic rebound.

Originally Posted by irvparkrez11

Seems like all the remaining Europeans are moving to the burbs (probably because of cheaper land/safety). Chicago will soon be an assimilated WASP/WASC/Latino/Asian/Black city.

Chicago has always been a "City of tribes," but eventually hormones will take care of everything. Trust me, teenagers looking to hook up could care less about issues like race and ethnicity.

A good looking girl who likes you is all that counts when you're in high school (adjust gender as needed), and I have never seen kids end up more socially intolerant than their parents in the City.

Regarding assimilating, it's not that hard to imagine a parent from European country x in 1925 berating their child for dating a kid from European country y:

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/lib/publ...C6E625-1926-T5

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Everything you ever wanted to know about Chicago neighborhoods can be summed up by looking at the neighborhood murder maps and the races of the victims.

Pull up the Austin map and you will see 60 or so odd murders a year of mostly black males.
Pull up the Lincoln park map and you will see about 1-2 murders a year (far western Lincoln park)

and so forth.....

I' m assuming you're talking about the Red Eye homicide tracker. It's a good site for doing exactly what it claims to do (though it's actually an average of 34 murders per year in Austin), but it's not going to tell you everything you ever wanted to know about Chicago neighborhoods. It's not even going to tell you everything about neighborhood crime, since things like muggings, apartment break-ins, and car theft are also important, among others. It also doesn't have much to do with the topic of this thread. Or, if it does, you should explain how.

[irvparkrez11]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

The Poles aren't getting run out, many of them are simply migrating to what they see as greener pastures. Avondale was 70% Hispanic in 2000, so it's not like it's been majority Polish (if it ever was) for a long, long time.

Look at the vacancies along Milwaukee Ave between Diversey and Pulaski, there's nobody bum-rushing Avondale's main commercial thoroughfare, although that will likely come in the next larger economic rebound.



Chicago has always been a "City of tribes," but eventually hormones will take care of everything. Trust me, teenagers looking to hook up could care less about issues like race and ethnicity.

A good looking girl who likes you is all that counts when you're in high school (adjust gender as needed), and I have never seen kids end up more socially intolerant than their parents in the City.

Regarding assimilating, it's not that hard to imagine a parent from European country x in 1925 berating their child for dating a kid from European country y:

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/lib/publ...C6E625-1926-T5

Hey, great map. Thanks for sharing!

Actually, Avondale used to be largely Polish. Used to be around 60% in the eighties, according to the article. But now, I imagine it's more like 10-15%.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by irvparkrez11

Actually, Avondale used to be largely Polish. Used to be around 60% in the eighties, according to the article. But now, I imagine it's more like 10-15%.

Certainly possible - but as the neighborhood is 120+ years old (depends if you include before Chicago annexed Jefferson Township), it has been a lot of things.

The Poles have long been a massive chunk of Chicago's population, but they've also been slowly moving NW up Milwaukee for a century.

Avondale isn't exactly Chinatown is all I'm saying, lots of groups have made their mark and continue to do so. That said, the Old World atmosphere on the 2900 and 3000 blocks of N. Milwaukee were certainly appealing when we decided to buy a home nearby.

Alas, so was the short-lived but kick-ass high end Mexican restaurant Ixcapuzalco, R.I.P.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Alas, so was the short-lived but kick-ass high end Mexican restaurant Ixcapuzalco, R.I.P.

You mean you haven't been to Real Tenochtitlan yet??

[A2DAC1985]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

I don't know of any cliff notes, but Chi-Town Native's post above scratches the surface a little deeper and is spot-on. (I think his patience is far exceeding mine at this point.)

Housing discrimination (historically legal, more recently illegal but still practiced) is another major factor. You can read about that here: RESIDENTIAL RACIAL SEGREGATION

In Chicago, much of what we see is the result of "blockbusting" (and resulting "white flight") in the 50's-70's. You could argue that blacks and whites "chose" to live where they did as a result of this practice, but they did so under extreme pressure, often with little real choice.
Blockbusting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And there's much, much more, but you'll have to research yourself if you're genuinely interested. I'm not doing any more unless you're paying me to teach you private sociology lessons.

I guess, when boiled down to it's simplest form, I'm to blame for Chicago?

If I move into an area that is predominantly of my own race, I'm part of segregated Chicago.
But if I move to an area that I am decidedly a minority, I'm a part of gentrification (which seems to be just as controversial as segregation, at least on the forums).

It seems like there's no way to please anyone.

Is it wrong that Chinatown is highly segregated? I'm curious.

[irvparkrez11]

Originally Posted by A2DAC1985

Is it wrong that Chinatown is highly segregated? I'm curious.

No, but it's strange why other towns haven't upheld segregation - Greek town is now diverse, Ukrainian village is certainly not really Ukrainian anymore, etc.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by A2DAC1985

I guess, when boiled down to it's simplest form, I'm to blame for Chicago?

If I move into an area that is predominantly of my own race, I'm part of segregated Chicago.
But if I move to an area that I am decidedly a minority, I'm a part of gentrification (which seems to be just as controversial as segregation, at least on the forums).

It seems like there's no way to please anyone.

Is it wrong that Chinatown is highly segregated? I'm curious.

If you're white and fortunate enough to have money, then yes, your choices are basically between participating in segregation or participating in gentrification. I personally choose the latter.

Nobody is blaming you for anything or asking you to please anyone, though. You're taking this all very personally for some reason.

For that matter, nobody is really even saying segregation (in Chinatown or anywhere else) is "wrong". We've been too busy trying to convince you that the obvious actually exists to bother getting into whether it's right or wrong.

[A2DAC1985]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

If you're white and fortunate enough to have money, then yes, your choices are basically between participating in segregation or participating in gentrification. I personally choose the latter.

Nobody is blaming you for anything or asking you to please anyone, though. You're taking this all very personally for some reason.

For that matter, nobody is really even saying segregation (in Chinatown or anywhere else) is "wrong". We've been too busy trying to convince you that the obvious actually exists to bother getting into whether it's right or wrong.

I guess I should have titled this thread "Somewhere Between Institutionalized and De Facto Segregation in Chicago".

Or "Malicious Segregation in Chicago".

Because I do know that people in fact self segregate, but any time "segregation" is brought up when talking about Chicago, it seems to be played as:

1. "Just another way that Chicago is a terrible place in the otherwise not terrible America"
2. "A product of the 'Chicago Way' of keeping minorities down"
3. "The most racist major city"

That's why I made this thread. It's the notion that the city itself or *some, and only some*, of the people living in it are intentionally separating residents into their perspective groups because they have some sort of hatred or fear towards groups that aren't like them, that baffles me.