Chicago's bicycle builder boom (real estate, income, living)

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by chet everett

These guys are are trying to pull a fast one, IMHO...

Then don't buy one. Others who agree with you will also not buy one. Those who want one and disagree with you will buy one. Again, everybody wins. What's the problem?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Then don't buy one. Others who agree with you will also not buy one. Those who want one and disagree with you will buy one. Again, everybody wins. What's the problem?

It's Chet's issue, no one else seems to care.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by rparz

It's nice to see some people willing to pay a fair price for something that isn't made in China for 38c an hour.

This.

But I do see Chet's point, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) he was just wondering if there was more to said bike than meets the eye.

I am horribly biased as a musician, as I know the difference between a good hand-crafted instrument and mass-produced ones.

So frankly, what is worth considering is how much TLC the assembly line Chinese fella is putting into your bike at 38c an hour working 12 hour days. Does he/she periodically reject parts that don't feel right or fit 100% correctly? Certainly not.

[rparz]

Originally Posted by MannheimMadman

I'd really have to see what type of tubing these frame-makers are using as well. The article mentions that one builder uses fillet brazing, which in turn, comes out beautifully. If they utilize Reynolds 753, 853 or 953 tubing, use fillet brazing, AND you can choose in lug design, $1000 wouldn't be a bad deal at all.

What some people don't understand is that those who enjoy steel frames are usually connoisseurs and with good funds. It's definitely a fairly small sect of bicycle enthusiasts, but they seem to be growing.

While they can do some artistic modifications to the lugs, at the end of the day, the fact is that brazing with lugs is a less costly, less skilled process than welding tubing together. (And slightly heavier) Brazing requires the lugs, oxy/acetylene torch, and tinted glasses. Getting a tig setup requires the power supply, torch, argon gas, purge, j.ig to hold tubes while welding, skilled hand making the weld, and depending on the type of tube, a heat treating to strengthen the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld.

Some people appreciate renaissance craftsmanship though.

[chet everett]

So wait are you saying a $150 worth of stock TrueTemper double butted is transformed by using an electric welding setup? Custom Builders True Teper Price List 2012

I just smell a whole lot of, uh, "misinformation" in both the original piece in Crain's and the very thin marketing heavy web sites from some of the guys profiled as well as from others in this thread.

There is a lot of good info about what it REALLY takes to have a succesful BUSINESS building / selling hand made bicylces and how different that is from the _b_s_ of romanticized notions of -- The Irony of Craft, thoughts on success from conversation with Ben Serotta

This reminds me more than a little of the food truck thread as the harsh reality of how little money the BEST food trucks make slams up against the media hype Food Trucks - A Fad? Or a good business model?

Originally Posted by rparz

While they can do some artistic modifications to the lugs, at the end of the day, the fact is that brazing with lugs is a less costly, less skilled process than welding tubing together. (And slightly heavier) Brazing requires the lugs, oxy/acetylene torch, and tinted glasses. Getting a tig setup requires the power supply, torch, argon gas, purge, j.ig to hold tubes while welding, skilled hand making the weld, and depending on the type of tube, a heat treating to strengthen the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld.

Some people appreciate renaissance craftsmanship though.

[rparz]

Originally Posted by chet everett

So wait are you saying a $150 worth of stock TrueTemper double butted is transformed by using an electric welding setup? Custom Builders True Teper Price List 2012

No, I'm saying that just because a bicycle is brazed doesn't automatically mean that it is superior. In fact, brazing is the older technology, while tig welding is more recent.

A well made brazed bicycle is better than a cheaply made welded one, and vice versa.

Brazing does add cost on a per-unit basis as compared to welding, but welding uses less in materials and more in equipment to use and higher level of skill.


Two competent builders building bikes, you can get a welded bike of equal quality for less cost (in production) that has been welded than one that had the expensive of lugs used, along with the higher cost of precious metals used to braze.

[chet everett]

Maybe I am being too harsh on the Mr. $1100. I suppose IF he is taking his "Legacy" naming overly seriously than MAYBE he is using the really odd internally sleeved fillet brazed technique of the 1960s-1970s "Superior & Sports Tourer" -- Fillet-Brazed Schwinn Bicycles 1938-1978

Of course this BEGS THE QUESTION, if this guy really is using this labor intensive method that BASICALLY NO OTHER CUSTOM BUILDER find to be superior AND only made sense in the PRODUCTION SCALE of Schwinn WHY THE HECK is his site silent about this odd method???


(and since the Crains article specifically says Levi B is welding his frames I doubt this guys even knows about the legacy of fillet brazing...)

[rparz]

Probably using this method as most custom builders do:
Lugged steel frame construction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quality tube sets can cost 100-200 just in material
STEEL TUBESETS :: TUBE SETS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

Another 2-300 for lugs and braze ons
LUGS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.



then there's the cutting, sizing, painting labor, overhead, consumables, then add 200 for wheels and tires, another 300 for gears and brakes, seat, ...etc

It adds up quick.

[Aleking]

Chet is still getting all worked up because his hipster spider sense went off....I wonder if some PBR swilling trust funder stole his girl or something.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Aleking

Chet is still getting all worked up because his hipster spider sense went off....I wonder if some PBR swilling trust funder stole his girl or something.

Not sure why he cares this much. Just don't buy the damn bike.