Does Royko's Chicago still exist anywhere? (Oak Lawn, Berwyn: movies, YMCA, public school)

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

That makes sense as the SW has had Mexicans and Spanish living there for centuries. English speakers didn't really take over until the 1800s.

Well, yes and no.

At the time of the Mexican-American war of the 1840s, when the whole southwest was ceded to the US (and Mexico itself was only 20-something years independent from Mexico), much of it was still a vast frontier wilderness, and was largely native american.

The only region of the southwest that had a significant large Hispanic population at the time, that also still give local/regional character today is northern New Mexico, more specifically the upper Rio Grande area, that corridor that includes Albequerque and Santa Fe.

The California missions and the Texas missions were established a lot later than the New Mexico settlements (early-mid 1600s compared to late 1700s) and were very small, remote communities.

The large Mexican-american/Chicano population that I was referring to still immigrated to the SW/California/Texas a lot later in the 20th century, basically at the same time the northeast and midwest cities were forming their white ethnic urban neighborhoods.

There were small Mexican communities in Chicago and other cities outside the Southwest as far back as th 20s, but until the era of easy jet travel, interstate highways, etc. of the post-war world, it was simply too distant to immigrate to for most people. Immigration was largely European for so long, because ships were the only way practical way to travel and immigrate long distances.

[Irishtom29]

Tex is right.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Just look at the SW quarter of the country. California and Texas have assimilated, middle class Mexican Americans as many have been in the country for multiple generations. Illinois/Chicagoland is just starting to see this.

Very true. I have a cousin from CA who is half Mexican, and she and her third-generation Mexican-American mother don't speak a lick of Spanish. She is in her 30s, and is fourth generation. Her father is my uncle.

She and her mother are both college educated, and she has a professional graduate degree. They are hardly struggling.

[GetYourIntelStraight]

Please at least read a book on the subject before posting complete nonsense.

[GetYourIntelStraight]

His mother did not own the building. It was his father-in-law who owned it, along with other real estate properties in Chicago, being a former bootlegger. His mother-in-law was very crude and would actually steal food out of the tenants' freezer, which ultimately led to the loss of the tenants' business. Mark Thanasouras wasn't even on the scene then, merely employed as a lowly used car salesman. He did not join the Chicago police force until much later...The captain of the Austin District was Mark Thanasouras, a particularly corrupt cop who was shaking down the neighborhood taverns.

Now his mother owned the building the hippies were renting; the hippies ran it as a sort of communal corporation and a clever and charismatic young Italian-American from Elmwood Park, a guy who used to be a JP, used the charter rules to force out the original leaders (who were from Oak Park and had moved the shop to Austin to escape the suffocating conformity and snobbery of that town then) and was pretty much in charge. Anyway the place became very popular with a diverse crowd of hippies, greasers, bikers looking for hippie chicks, black guys looking for hippie chicks and every weirdo and Chairman Mao quoting screwball on the West Side and western burbs, out to Bellwood. Then the greasers got into it with the bikers and killed a biker.

So Thanasouras is going nuts with this multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-class bunch of long haired communists, draft dodgers, dope smokers and general lollygaggers (in his mother's building no less, bad enough his district) and starts putting the heat on the them; arrests for no reasons, staging raids and other high handed tactics. They might tolerate living theater at Lincoln and Fullerton (a big hippie neighborhood then, the faint beginnings of gentrification) but NOT Lake and Austin. After awhile this activity is noted down at 11th and State so unbeknownst to Thanasouras the wheels downtown send some Task Force guys out to Austin to nose around. Now it gets good.

A buddy of mine's father owned a tavern just down the street from Gandalf's and one night there was a brawl in the joint. A couple of uniformed Task Force cops who were watching Gandalf's went in, broke things up and pinched a couple of the customers.

"Wait" my buddy's dad cried, thinking the cops were local "you can't arrest my customers!"

"Whaddaya mean we can't arrest your customers? Says who?"

"I paid my money and me and my customers are protected"

"What money?"

And that was the beginning of the downfall of Thanasouras. He was convicted of corruption and turned on some other coppers to get a lighter sentence. He did a couple of years and was released and in the mid 1970s somebody shot him in the face with a shotgun. And that was that.[/quote]

[JacksonPanther]

How did you stumble across this 2 1/2 year old thread?

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Maybe as I get older it is easier for me see where Royko's grumpy old man side and dismissal of Dr. I.M.Kooky type sociologists' perscriptions grow increasingly flawed but the fact is that there are too few people like Bill Crosby that tell people that they've been sold a bill of goods by their erstwhile "poltical leaders" and that message largely goes unheeded.

Is it trite to say the level of exploitation that occurs when another generation of performers that have been raised as entertainment "royalty" commands more media acclaim as minstrels than is healthy -- Berry Gordy's youngest son and his cousin will undoubtedly put a ton of money in the bank as LMAFO but will they inspire urban underclass to live the kind of life that will result in an indepenance or foster a false belief that fame and an easy life comes to the profane?

I am not suggesting that it is a simple as making more to effort to showcase more people like Condoleeza Rice or Olympic Figure Skater / Stanford Undergrad / Northwestern Med Orthpedic Surgeon Dr. Debi Thomas as a role model vs Kimberly "Lil' Kim" Jones & Nicki Minaj but it would be a step in the right direction for fewer folks to denigrate the achievements of the most educated /accomplished African-Americans that wisely distance themselves from any "urban culture"...

I hope we don't have to wait for the current President's daughters to be given prime time TV shows showcasing the many hardworking high achieving African-Americans to "inspire" more focus on the value of education and persistence but maybe that is what it will take.

Since someone resurrected a three-year-old thread..

Amazing what a few years will do to public perceptions, especially in regard to Bill Cosby. But you should also read about the turn of events in Debi Thomas's story, as things have gotten much worse for her in recent years. A recent Washington Post article describes , in great detail, how her life unraveled, especially with the loss of her medical license, and her struggles with her mental health. I really had no idea about any of this..

As far as Mike Royko's old neighborhoods go, they exist, but under different ownership. The descendents of the European immigrants long ago fled to the suburbs, to be replaced by Hispanic immigrants. There are some left, perhaps in SW and NW Chicago in the Bungalow Belt, but they won't be the wave of the future..

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by MassVt

Since someone resurrected a three-year-old thread..

Amazing what a few years will do to public perceptions, especially in regard to Bill Cosby. But you should also read about the turn of events in Debi Thomas's story, as things have gotten much worse for her in recent years. A recent Washington Post article describes , in great detail, how her life unraveled, especially with the loss of her medical license, and her struggles with her mental health. I really had no idea about any of this..

As far as Mike Royko's old neighborhoods go, they exist, but under different ownership. The descendents of the European immigrants long ago fled to the suburbs, to be replaced by Hispanic immigrants. There are some left, perhaps in SW and NW Chicago in the Bungalow Belt, but they won't be the wave of the future..

Indeed. What is left I would describe as "remnants" of such neighborhoods. Overwhelmingly old people and other assorted randos who never left for whatever reason, not many young families at all, with a few small exceptions.

[Tex?Il?]

When Chicago stops dying the river green on St. Patricks Day, THEN I'll believe that the white ethnic Chicagoan is a thing of the past.

But a little more seriously,

As long as there is a requirement for city employee to live in the city limits, you will still have your concentrations of multigenerational "white ethnic" (including Irish Americans) as Chicago city politics is more about who you know.

Also, considering Polish immigration, at least up until a few years ago, was still VERY strong in high numbers on the far NW side (Polish is the 2nd highest immigration after Mexican in Chicago) will also guarantee Chicago having that white ethnic/Catholic vibe for some time.

Both of the above groups look to Catholic education as a worth it alternative to CPS, so unless CPS magically becomes attractive and outstanding, "white ethnic" will still reinforce their own primarily through education.

[summer22]

Originally Posted by eating while walking

Let me preface this by saying I am not from Chicago and have never read any of Mike Royko's writing until a few weeks ago. Right now I am working my way through "Boss", which is a tell-all covering the shenanigans of Daley's Machine, as well as a few collections of his columns. Coming to it fresh as an adult, I am loving the way he writes about the old neighborhoods and communities. It just seems so different from what I see around me in my daily routine.

This is kind of a nebulous and maybe ridiculous question, but is there any place in the city which still has that Royko-esque neighborhood feel? Stuff I am looking for, but not limited to:

Penny pitching
Streetcars
Hot dog carts
Guys like "Slats Grobnik"
Taverns on every corner
Bars and dives filled with gruff newspapermen
Still-functioning factories, and everyone who works there lives within 1 - 2 blocks
White ethnic neighborhoods with youth gangs jumping each other as soon as they cross neighborhood lines

You get the idea.

You'll definitely have the hot dog carts, the guys like Slats, and the taverns. Milwaukee Avenue, Bridgeport, Canaryville, Archer Ave. on the south side.... these would be older neighborhoods (ethnic and Polish neighborhoods) where you will find some of these things.

Some of those north and south side old neighborhoods still have small factories, but they definitely don't employ the whole parish or the whole community like they used to.

As of the 1990s the neighborhood youth were still operating like they did in decades past in places like Bridgeport, Canaryville, Little Italy, Armour Square, and the south side community of Mount Greenwood. Even in the 1990s though, those neighborhood youth were not all white, so the dynamic had already changed some. My Bridgeport friends were white and hispanic.

You might still find some of the neighborhood turf issues (the non-violent, not gang related type) but I think that era is mostly gone. Parenting styles have changed, education is more important, reputation (as in not getting arrested for stupid stuff) is more important, diversity is much more accepted, teen drinking is not ignored like it used to be. Social media exposes everything. Catholic schools on the south and southwest sides and suburbs have become more racially and ethnically diverse than they used to be. The 1990s-now music and sports culture helped make black athletes and music groups popular, and although this is still stereotypical, we have several generations of Chicagoans of all colors who want to "Be Like Mike." How can you hate your black neighbor for his race, when you want to be just like your favorite basketball player?

And with Chicago's violence there are probably more teens saying "no" to any kind of conflict because these days, conflict would probably escalate to shootings, whereas a few decades ago, it didn't used to.